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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Ed wrote: | | Matt brought the costume to Europe and wore it because I (and probably most of the readers) wanted to see him in a costume jumping around and beating up bad guys after 6 issues of him in prison orange. I suppose we could have created a whole new costume, but yes, sometimes you have to accept that it's a superhero comic and the main character does superhero-like things because of that. Matt always dressed up as DD in San Francisco, too. He's always done stuff like this, never being too careful with his secret ID. There was no padding in this story at all, in my mind. It's actually kind of crammed. |
First of all, I don't view my points as complaints. They are merely observations. I did not intend for them to come across as nit picky fan boy complaints. And, I feel my points are valid. When Matt went to San Francisco it wasn't at a time when the life of Matt Murdock was under public scrutiny. The timing of Matt doing this is illogical. But, as you say, we want to see the tights. So does the writer (and the artist wants to draw it). But, if this illogical act (which is done to placate the readers--gotta see the tights!!) is then used against the hero, as was indicated by the photos, then it seems to me that the illogical use of the costume was only a way to get Matt backed up into a deeper corner. Which only helps the writer.
| Ed wrote: | | As for Matt's radar and senses, you're just wrong. His radar and heightened senses aren't all inclusive and always on his mind, just like your sense of smell isn't always the main thing you're thinking of. There's a whole world around him all the time that he's got to filter out. So, it's highly likely that he wouldn't pick up someone two blocks away on a rooftop taking a picture when he's fighting two goons somewhere else |
I know exactly how Matt's senses work. I am aware that his senses are something he must focus on. In fact, this focus and concentration is acutally what helps Matt filter stuff out. He needs to focus to keep all the stimuli at bay, or else it would be overwhelming. And, yes, things can get by him, I agree with that. And, I know different writers use his ability to concentrate or not concentrate on them to suit there story. Bru has Matt unable to sense a photographer with a telephoto lense two blocks away. Yet, Bendis (in the Widow arc) has Matt able to sense snipers with telephoto scopes aimed at him and the Widow two blocks away. Neither Bru or Bendis is wrong. I'm just saying that writers do this and sometimes it is transparent when they use this able to focus/unable to focus when it suits their tale.
As for Matt and Vanessa's offer. Looks like she's trying to force his hand. I really am eagar to see what Matt does next. One thing I don't understand is: Did Vanessa know there would be a riot in Rykers? And, that the Punisher would aid Matt's escape? Those are some Grandmaster (soothsayer) moves on Vanessa's part! Seems to me that it would have been easier for Matt to escape during the funeral. Heck, I won't even go into the "Who identified Foggy's body question?"
Anyway, despite all that, the tale is still intriguing. I'm dying to see Matt's next (chess) move. So, the writer must be doing something right 
rgj |
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Ed Brubaker
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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No, she didn't know about the riot ahead of time. She just knew Matt would either go after Kingpin and go nuts, or he'd go the other direction, and would get out of prison somehow. He's a slick guy, after all. As for Foggy's body, it wouldn't have been IDed, since he was whisked away by the Feds. A body doesn't need to be IDed when they know who it is. Dakota was with him, he had ID, etc. They only make people ID dead bodies when they find a body with no ID, generally, or if they aren't sure the ID matches the body - or if it's a TV show and they want the moment onscreen (sort of like in Superhero comics when they want to show the guy in costume, I guess).
I didn't mean to imply you were being nitpicky, rgi. But in my view, you're inverting the costume situation.
What Vanessa having those photos did, in my mind, was point out the recklessness of him running around in costume because I wanted to do a some swashbuckling in the book, and because it's a superhero book and I embrace that. But if he's doing it, then it stands to reason there should be a cost. That's the route I approached when writing the story, not the way you're viewing it.
As for the comparison of those two scenes. IIRC, wasn't Matt aware that someone was after Natasha in that scene? Whereas in this story his senses are failing him all the time because he's all mixed up thinking about Karen and Lily.
Believe it or not, I do think about these things ahead of time. 
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe its been nearly a year already with Bru on board! Who was that last guy on this book?
Wow, I was off the mark. But then, I'm not suprised. "Mr. Wrong" is my super-power. It is not easy being this talanted I know. I think I read too much into the betrayal, believing it had to be someone of more considerable morals (not that Nick has much, but that he is identified as a "good guy" by the reader). I must thank Bru very much for having Richard's death discussed in this issue and that it remains that way. A dead Richard. I would of gone postal, no doubt. Well, that is not entirely true. I probably would of spewed out a bunch of animal noises and be in need of an exoricism.
Bru (or Mr. Bru ), is there any information regarding the oversized hardcovers continuing with your run on Daredevil? I heard Bendis on a podcast suggesting that it might not happen. I really believe that your work (and Lark's too!) needs this treatment.
Happy New Year!
Quack!
C.
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Love is blindness, I don't want to see
Won't you wrap the night around me |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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In resonse to Ed Brubaker
In order for a story to work, it must first have a foundation to build on. This story needed the dead (or presumed dead) body of Foggy Nelson. Now, maybe it's just me, but I don't believe that someone in the family (or friend) would not insist on seeing Foggy's remains. Especially, someone like the mother we saw assult Matt when handing down culpability for his fate. Again, these are just observations. We can agree to disagree on how we think the senario would have played out logically. And, as for the costume situation, we can also agree to see it differently. The writer is correct to use that recklessness against the hero, but in my mind, it makes no sense that Matt would do this. Look, not so long ago, I read a story in one of the Spiderman mags in which Norman Osborn coerced Peter to break him out of prison because his aunt was in peril. So, Peter does it (an illegal act) . . . in his Spidey costume! Despite the fact that he would be implicating Spiderman in a major crime. Pete doesn't need to do this with the costume! His powers aren't due to the suit. See, it's just the logic of things that gets me thinking . . . what was the writer thinking!? And, on fan site message boards, we fans are free to critique! Yeah, baby!
I'm not going to argue the two DD scenes with you. All, I'm saying is that Bru could have had DD pick up the photographers, IF it served his purpose. That's all. And, that is the writer's perogative. But, we can agree to diagree whether or not Matt should have known it was Danny Rand in the costume. I guess I'm a cynic. I don't think Matt missed it was Danny cause Matt's senses were distracted somehow, I just think it helped the writer pull off a real boss fight scene. And, it was pretty boss.
Still, you are good with defending the story (and it is a good story). I give you that. Perhaps, one day you can expalin Bendis's Dan "the Bomb" and his part in Born Again one day 
By the way, I noticed Ed Brubaker told Stephan on another thread he should not insult Bendis, a friend of his. And, you are absolutely right. We should be civil. So, Ed, I apologize to you right now, if I happen to equate Joey Q. with another kind of primate. Okay, not "if", but "when." 
rgj |
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Ed Brubaker
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about the hardbacks, honestly. I haven't asked. I assume if they're selling well, they'll continue them.
rgi -- I will confess to being a writer, and to occasionally having to eschew logic for story. All writers do. Hopefully, I don't do it too badly most of the time, or allow too many ideas to get through just because they'll look cool in a comic.
I would assume that in a situation like faking someone's death and sneaking them into Witness Protection, the FBI would find a way around any family members viewing the remains. They actually do stuff like this in real life, though probably not too often, and the only person I know who was ever in Witness Protection didn't have their death faked first. However, that was such a minor point in the larger story that I didn't even think it needed to be addressed.
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Taskmaster
Flying Blind
Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| All I have to say is, in my opinion "Daredevil" has had the greatest roster of writers in comics and right now it is as solid as it's ever been. The great creative teams of the past such as Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, Nocenti/JRjr, Smith/Quesada, Mack/Quesada, Bendis/Maleev......they all had certain unique storytelling strengths, but if I had to choose one as the most well-rounded and sure (despite the difficulty of keeping this whole snowball rolling), without a doubt it is the current team and this issue was a great example of that - an unravelling mystery taking us somewhere totally uncharted but based on the logical progression of all the events that led to the present. It's genius. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Taskmaster wrote: | | The great creative teams of the past such as Miller/Janson, Miller/Mazzuchelli, Nocenti/JRjr, Smith/Quesada, Mack/Quesada, Bendis/Maleev...... |
Well, everything is relative. I, personally, would not put "Smith/Quesada" or "Mack/Quesada" with the other creators mentioned. But, hey that's me. One team that always seems to be forgotten is D.G. Chichester and Lee Weeks.
Look, I'll admit that Chichester lost me with Fall From Grace and the subsequet Jack Batlin' stuff. But, still, the stuff he did before was just incredible. In fact, issues #292-300 (culminating with Last Rites) is as good as the Miller stuff. In fact, D.G. Chichester is an original. Why? Just about every writer post-Miller has basically written Matt/DD as a victim of his circumstances. A reactionary character as opposed to a pro-active one. It started with Born Again. Matt at the mercy of KP. Nocienti (and I love her, I really do) had Matt being led around by the aftermath of BA and, then, the manipulation of Typhoid. So much so he leaves Hell's Kitchen and goes to Hell and then spontaneously loses his memory (in a great story). DeMattes turned Matt into a victim of split personalities. Smith had Matt all drugged up ending up helpless in the Church basement in a cheap Born Again half assed moment. Even Bendis had a reactionary Matt under the thumb of the outing. His one proactive moment in King of Hell's Kitchen was due to yet another mental breakdown. And, the promising Brubaker, who most of us agree has exceeded all expectations has Matt being led (manipulated like a chess novice) around by the nose (to the other side of the world). D. G. Chichester has been the ONLY writer to really have Matt in total control (#292-300). And, it was amazing, refreshing and ORIGINAL charcterization. He put the Punisher in his place. And, then he took the fight to the Hand. He ended Typhoid's hold over him by becomming the aggressor and taking away her edge. Then, in Last Rites as Nick Fury thinks he is manipulating Matt ("the boy scout"), in the end it was Matt who was playing Fury all along. And, it brought down Fisk for quite some time, well, until Smith/Mack/Bendis brought him back. Under Chichester Matt was strong, confident and not a victim. Truly original. And, a hell of a read. And, as I said before, Chichester wrote Matt's senses better than any writer ever. No, I'm not talking here about the "range or extent" of his senses like the recent back and forth I had with Brubaker. I'm talking about the narrative (sometimes in first person) Chichester would write conveying how Matt "saw" the world. With Chichester you NEVER forgot Matt was blind. You were burdened with it. And, you also understood how he sensed the world better than anyone on Earth. Somtimes at the price of pain.
Okay, that's my Chichester plug. And, this guy should not be ommited, especially when lesser, sideshow act, writers like Smith are mentioned.
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're nit picking at this point rgj. Really now, heroes are always forced to make mistakes for the sake of the plot (notice how the Flash isn't allowed to knock out Captain Cold within the first panel, even though its well within his powers). All comic books are abide by this convention and DD is no different. There really is no point complaining about it.
Last edited by The Overlord on Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Look, Overlori
Who asked you?
Just go about your pheramones and your obsession with Mr. Fear.
And, stop complaining about what you precieve to be complaints on my part.
Happy New Year.
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | Look, Overlori
Who asked you?
Just go about your pheramones and your obsession with Mr. Fear.
And, stop complaining about what you precieve to be complaints on my part.
Happy New Year.
rgj |
That's one typo, back off, stop acting like this:
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/grammarian.htm
You don't see me criticizing you for having paragraph that is too long and isn't properly broken up into smaller paragraphs. Don't be a grammar nazi, if your grammer isn't perfect, mr. run on paragraph.
This is a public forum, I will give my opinion whenever it pleases me.
Happy New Year to you too. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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What's the matter? Unable to articulate your feelings without this link??
| The Overload wrote: | | You don't see me criticizing you for having paragraph that is too long and isn't properly broken up into smaller paragraphs. Don't be a grammar nazi, if your grammer isn't perfect, mr. run on paragraph. |
Hey, it's just a typo on my part too. And, if you don't appreicate my, albeit, gramatically challenged, yet amazingly insightful run on paragraphs, feel free to stop reading them where you would have started the next paragraph.
| The Overloaf wrote: | | This is a public forum, I will give my opinion whenever it pleases me. |
Like I was doing when you judged my observations to be "complaints." So, when you say "there is no use in complaining about it" you mean I should just not post my opinion. As you said, it's a public forum I'll write my observations "whenever it pleases me."
| Overlout wrote: | | Happy New Year to you too. |
Thanks a bunch.
rgj
p.s. My apologies to KM and Ed. Sorry for this display. But, sometimes you have to take out the paddle. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: |
What's the matter? Unable to articulate your feelings without this link??
| The Overload wrote: | | You don't see me criticizing you for having paragraph that is too long and isn't properly broken up into smaller paragraphs. Don't be a grammar nazi, if your grammer isn't perfect, mr. run on paragraph. |
Hey, it's just a typo on my part too. And, if you don't appreicate my, albeit, gramatically challenged, yet amazingly insightful run on paragraphs, feel free to stop reading them where you would have started the next paragraph.
| The Overloaf wrote: | | This is a public forum, I will give my opinion whenever it pleases me. |
Like I was doing when you judged my observations to be "complaints." So, when you say "there is no use in complaining about it" you mean I should just not post my opinion. As you said, it's a public forum I'll write my observations "whenever it pleases me."
| Overlout wrote: | | Happy New Year to you too. |
I will. Thanks a bunch.
rgj
p.s. My apologies to KM and Ed. Sorry for this display. But, sometimes you have to take out the paddle. |
I wasn't compalining about your run on paragraph, I was just just showing you that everyone can make mistakes on these forums. "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
I apologize as well to KM and Ed. Look maybe I misjudged you, but it seemed to me like you were nitpicking. I never said you "shouldn't post your fellings", I just felt there was no point in nitpicking.
You are free to do it if you like, but I think bugging Ed over every little detail seems excessive to me. Maybe I'm misreading your intentions, but that's the way it comes out to me. It seems disrespectful, to me. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | I apologize as well to KM and Ed. Look maybe I misjudged you, but it seemed to me like you were nitpicking. I never said you "shouldn't post your fellings" I just felt there was no point in nitpicking, you are free to do it if you like, but I think bugging Ed over every little detail seems excessive to me. Maybe I'm misreading your intentions, but that's the way it comes out. |
I was not nit picking. And, if you read what Ed Brubaker said, he said he didn't mean to imply that I was nit picking. There is a thing called constructive critisism. Dave Wallace lends his opinions on every monthly book at Silver Bullets. If he dislikes an issue, it doesn't mean he was nit picking in regards the reasons he gives the book a low mark. Writers are always going to be evaluated by the reader. I initailly stated my observations and it was Brubaker who retorted, very admirably I may add. We had a couple of exchanges and that was that. What he said about being guility of being a writer, I can totally respect that. If I were "nit picky" I would have gone on about it after that. So, look, I had moved on to a some comments on D.G. Chichester, it was you, The Overlord, who brought this converstation back, with an unfounded indictment on my opinions/musings about the story. I would really love to run on this paragraph more, but I'm done.
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | I apologize as well to KM and Ed. Look maybe I misjudged you, but it seemed to me like you were nitpicking. I never said you "shouldn't post your fellings" I just felt there was no point in nitpicking, you are free to do it if you like, but I think bugging Ed over every little detail seems excessive to me. Maybe I'm misreading your intentions, but that's the way it comes out. |
I was not nit picking. And, if you read what Ed Brubaker said, he said he didn't mean to imply that I was nit picking. There is a thing called constructive critisism. Dave Wallance lends his opinion on every monthly book at Silver Bullets. If he dislikes an issue, it doesn't mean he was nit picking in regards the reasons he gives the book a low mark. Writers are always going to be evaluated by the reader. I initailly stated my observations and it was Brubaker who retorted, very admirably I may add. We had a couple of exchanges and that was that. What he said about being guility of being a writer, I can totally respect that. If I were "nit picky" I would have gone on about it after that. So, look, I had moved on to a some comments on D.G. Chichester, it was you, The Overlord, who brought this converstation back, with an unfounded indictment on my opinions/musings about the story. I would really love to run on this paragraph more, but I'm done.
rgj |
Fine, I misjudged you, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult or offend you and I'm sorry. I would like to apologize to Ed, KM or anyone else felt I derailed this thread. I hope we can get back on topic. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | Fine, I misjudged you, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult or offend you and I'm sorry. I would like to apologize to Ed and KM and I hope we can get back on topic. |
Hey, everything is cool.
Ebony And Ivory Live Together In Perfect Harmony
Side By Side On My Piano Keyboard, Oh Lord, Why Don't We? 
KM can keep that lock away! Let's resume the show!
rgj |
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