Daredevil Message Board

Stephan · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 303

"Whatever sick game the two of you started playing, you may be better at than him... but you aren't you anymore." - Daredevil, referring to the contentious Fisk marriage in #92

Brubaker, however unwittingly, has shed light on the Marvel/DC rivalry. Marvel has unquestionably eclipsed DC in terms of sales - but in many respects, it isn't Marvel anymore. In its quest to crush DC, Marvel has resorted to histrionic, overdone, oversensational story lines, often accompanied by hyperbolic, inflated accounts in Wizard and other publications. Civil War is perhaps the most egregious example. Meanwhile, Marvel isn't Marvel anymore. Rather than coping with his personal woes (as he did in times past) Peter Parker appears on TV, and delivers a stirring (and, incidentally, patronizing) speech. Rather than dealing with his alcohol addiction (as he did in times past), Anthony Stark plots to detain and intern hordes of innocent people. Marvel isn't Marvel anymore. In the past, character development was the focal point. In the past, Marvel was more down-to-earth. Yes, the whole concept of costumed heroes is preposterous. But (in the past) Marvel made the notion conceivable, somehow. But Marvel isn't Marvel anymore. Joe Q has prevailed over DC - but at what cost?

Mr. Brubaker, I beseech you - don't allow this Civil War inanity to tarnish your run on DD.

Acerbus · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:19 am Post subject:

Not true. If you've read the Iron Man Civil War tie-in... you can clearly see Iron Man having nagging, uncertain doubts about the course of action he's taken, as a matter of fact, I think that's even spelled out in the Civil War comic itself. Even he seems aware that he may be affected by some kind of behind-the-scenes manipulation of some kind... intrapersonal uncertainty... classic Marvel fare.

Also, I'd point to all of the personal conflict within the Fantastic Four (i.e, Reed questioning his decisions, and the fact that it cost him Sue) and Spider-Man (Peter wondering how his identity being made public will effect M.J. and May - and eventually changing sides in no small part because of it) Civil War tie-ins. Never mind the fact that S.H.I.E.L.D. director Maria Hill has flat-out said she thought they were very likely doing the wrong thing... but she was trapped in her role as director, and planned on playing out her role to the end.

If that isn't Marvel, I don't know what is. If it were DC, there'd be a whole bunch of 'Where's Waldo with Capes'-style shots with characters who haven't appeared since Showcase #8 flying in a 'green-zone' or posing on bleachers, it would be rife with silver age references that 90% of the audience doesn't understand or care about, and there would have been a fill-in artist by issue 3.

Civil War is a Marvel title for the reason that it answers the question that every sane comic fan has been asking since day one: When Spider-Man knocks a big space monster into a high-rise in New York City in the middle of the afternoon - what happens to the people in the building? Are superheroes just automatically above-the-law because they wear badass outfits and we've decided that we like them - or is that a pompous notion, and they're putting lives in danger with no training whatsoever? Marvel concepts, all. If anything, I just think Marvel has gotten more of the bombast that they had in the 60's and 70's back into their stride.

Sandman · Flying Blind Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 27

james castle · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:

Forrest · Lowlife Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439

james castle · Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject:

I couldn't agree more. It'll be interesting to see whether or not this obviously short term stratagy eventually hurts Marvel in the long run. The jumping on point after jumping on point, EVENT! stratagy is obviously working for Marvel now but won't people who stick around for any length of time get bored? How many jumping on points can a person take? Can crop after crop of newbies really sustain Marvel through the years?
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

Forrest · Lowlife Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439

Stephan · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 30 Sep 2004 Posts: 303

JC asserted:

james castle · Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject:

rgj · Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject:

Clearly, Marvel (Joey Q) is just grabbing stuff out of their (his) . . . well, you know. From the beginning, this whole premise was absurd (and branched out to other abusrd things like thunderbolts). Brubaker, or the poster Ed Brubaker, said that sometimes writers "eschew logic" for "story" (even bad ones I guess). james castle has pointed out several times why this whole thing is crap. And, he's absolutely right. I stayed away form all things CW (have some back issues of Spiderman comics I haven't read yet, but I may verywell drop all the Spidey titles form my pull list because of CW). Perhaps the "heroes" (did the govenrmnet "define" what a hero was, by the way) should have claimed to be mutants. Who's to say they aren't. Anyway, thank God it's almost over.

rgj

Forrest · Lowlife Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439

Forrest · Lowlife Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 1439

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.