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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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 Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Please Tell Me You're Kidding |
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Jaw meet floor.
Okay, this is too much. Too, too, too much.
Okay, so I don't know how many people are following this but apparently the February issue of New Avengers is going to introduce a new team. Over at Newsarama Bendis is revealing one New New Avenger a day. On day 1 he revealed Echo as a member and said (and I'm not kidding here): "She’s kind of like the female Taskmaster". No, no, he said that. He really, really said that. "Kind of"? She's "kind of" like a female Taskmaster? Really? You think? Just a bit? Well, I guess if by "kind of" you mean "exactly like" then I can understand.
As nuts as that little comment is, it's only the start of the crazy. On day 2 he revealed...Ronin (I'm not kidding. Go to newsarama if you don't believe me). That's right kids. Apparently someone else is taking over the Ronin costume. But who? Well guess what? It's a MYSTERY! THE IDENTITY OF RONIN IS A MYSTERY! AGAIN! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. According to Bendis:
| Quote: | | "there’s a lot of people it could be. Really I can think of 10 or 15 right off the top of my head that would be interesting…Maybe Daredevil?. You know maybe it actually is Daredevil this time. Or maybe it’s someone we’re going to reveal is already in the group. Maybe it will be Captain America? Or maybe it will be someone from the Mighty Avengers who is working both sides as a double agent because he or he doesn’t believe in the Initiative?" |
I can't believe it. I literally can't believe it. Just to recap, Marvel spent well over a year hyping the "who is Ronin?" mystery just to let the whole thing fall ridiculously flat when it was revealed to be Echo (who, as I understand it promptly left the team). Now they're doing the same thing again? It's mind boggling. It's just mind boggling. I could go on and on forever and never really explain how ridiculous I find this. It's just jaw droppingly lame on so many levels. Bendis can't really expect people to get excited about "who is Ronin?" again...can he? CAN HE?
I never thought I'd say this but maybe Stephen was right. This is the hackiest thing I've ever heard of. Excuse me while I go buy an arm load of Kirkman books and try to pretend I've never heard of Bendis.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Question: "Who is Ronin?"
Answer: "Who cares? It's just an incredibly uncool character, a failed photocopy of those ninja enemies of the Ninja Turtles, and looks like he stinks a lot, in that horridous outfit." |
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Stephan
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| As I noted previously, Bendis is not a visionary. I am not surprised that he is duplicating the earlier "Ronin" yarn. His works have always been uninspired and unoriginal. His much-ballyhooed secret identity plotline demonstrated this. Matt's secret identity had been divulged by a tabloid before (during the Chichester era) - it was hardly a clever or inventive idea! Bendis' DD suffered a mental breakdown. DD has had several in times past. Bendis' run on DD was not groundbreaking, nor are his other works. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of Bendis and Echo, I think we all remember The Murdock Papers. The MP suffered from an amazingly flawed premise where Elektra (who guessed starred) apparently betrayed Matt to the KP regarding his hypersenses. Of course, we all know that's crap since Elektra didn't betray Matt to KP when SHE WORKED FOR HIM. And, Elektra came down her mountain after Matt took out KP in Last Rites and there is no way Elektra would have (or could have) betrayed Matt to KP. We won't even get to how Elektra would even know the extent of Matt's hypersenses ("yeah, KP, make sure the photogaphers are 1.5 miles away  ). But, anyway, don't you all remember that Echo was replaced by Elektra on one of the covers of MP? Could it be that Echo was the one who was supposed to betray Matt? Now, of course, Echo would still not know the extent/range of Matt's senses, but it makes MUCH, MUCH more sense that Echo could have betrayed Matt's secret to KP than Elektra. I think he changed the story mid write!! And, I think the same thing happened with Ronin. I think Ronin was supposed to be Matt. But, because of the direction Bru wanted to go (jail time) it could NOT be Matt in the dumb Ronin guise. I think Bendis just changed his stories mid way, and the end result was some really flawed logic and crappy storytelling. Now, I wouldn't say that Bendis sucks as a writer or anything like that, but those are a couple of examples of (perhaps, Editor in Chimp influenced) hacky storytelling.
rgj |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | The MP suffered from an amazingly flawed premise where Elektra (who guessed starred) apparently betrayed Matt to the KP regarding his hypersenses. |
I think it was made clear, in the MP arc, that Elektra is referring to events dating back to when she was working for the Kingpin (even if that too is quite contradictory, because, even after that, the Kingpin is shown to have no knowledge of the fact that DD has even hypersenses (as described in the Born Again arc)). |
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Stephan
Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 303
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| "The Murdock Papers" had numerous continuity errors and blunders, as rgj suggested. Moreover, Matt's decision to yield to the authorities was illogical and unsound (his incarceration clearly did not enhance the safety of his loved ones, and no reasonable individual would ever have assumed that it would) and inconsistent with the character's past depiction (Matt has fled from the law countless times before). Bendis and his ilk are bound and determined to tell their unoriginal stories - continuity and common sense be damned. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | I think it was made clear, in the MP arc, that Elektra is referring to events dating back to when she was working for the Kingpin (even if that too is quite contradictory, because, even after that, the Kingpin is shown to have no knowledge of the fact that DD has even hypersenses (as described in the Born Again arc)). |
As I said, a FLAWED premise. Which is a major reason the Murdock Papers was a piece of crap of a story. Elektra DID NOT tell Kingpin about his senses during Miller's run-that would have led to Elektra telling him he was Matt Murdock too. If she had, the entire history of DD (as told by post Miller writers--including Miller, himself, in BORN AGAIN) would have been AMAZINGLY different. The KP had no knowledge of Matt's senses until, . . . well . . . until Bendis came along (which Bendis never explained. And, Bendis didn't only have KP know the details of Matt's senses, Bendis had EVERYONE--like SHIED [clearly Nick Fury has no knowledge of Matt's senses in LAST RITES] & Luke Cage--who knew Matt was DD, somehow know Matt has hypersenses). That was a HUGE Bendis blunder.
rgj |
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hylozoii
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| So...what are you guys getting at? Matt will be the new Ronin? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As I said, a FLAWED premise. Which is a major reason the Murdock Papers was a piece of crap of a story. |
You know what I don't understand of some of you guys in this board? The fact that for you it's either black or white.
Or better, it's either "Bendis' run is nothing short of legendary" or "blah blah, it is a piece of crap/it's ridiculous/it sucks".
While every single one of these continuity errors by Bendis was a punch to the stomach, I don't think, all in all, that MP was "a piece of crap of a story". Hell, in my opinion it could be considered a good story even just because of the fighting scene with Bullseye. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Also, I think that Echo deduced that DD had hypersenses by sheer attentive observation (which makes a little more sense, anyway, because she's described to be quite good when it comes to observation). |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | You know what I don't understand of some of you guys in this board? The fact that for you it's either black or white.
Or better, it's either "Bendis' run is nothing short of legendary" or "blah blah, it is a piece of crap/it's ridiculous/it sucks". |
You know what I don't understand? Posters on this board that don't pay attention. When I praised Bendis, Stephan calls me a Bendis devotee. When I call a spade a spade and say Bendis made an error on MP and that this ONE story royally sucked, I get this clown Francesco putting me in the Bendis basher group. You don't know what you are talking about Fran. I judge Bendis by the merits of each of his arcs. Bendis did some good things. And, he also did poor work in some cases. Want to know what I don't understand? It's guys like Stephan and Francesco who catagorize you (as either pro or anti Bendis) just cause you say a "good" thing or "bad" thing regarding one of his arcs. You liked MP? Good for you. I'm not taking exception with it like you seem to be with me regarding MY opinon on it.
Oh, and by the way, there is NO WAY Echo could QUANTIFY the extent of Matt's senses based on "observation." So, whatever.
rgj
p.s. I'm neither black or white. On many levels, cabron! |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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rgj, please don't call me a clown and a cabron. I want you to be a friend. Explain to me what I got wrong and I'll be ready and glad to correct myself.
Thank you.
| Quote: | | Oh, and by the way, there is NO WAY Echo could QUANTIFY the extent of Matt's senses based on "observation." So, whatever. |
And who said that she could "quantify Matt's senses" "based on observation"? Maybe you should've _paid more attention_ to my post. |
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco originally wrote: | You know what I don't understand of some of you guys in this board? The fact that for you it's either black or white.
Or better, it's either "Bendis' run is nothing short of legendary" or "blah blah, it is a piece of crap/it's ridiculous/it sucks". |
| then Francesco wrote: | Explain to me what I got wrong and I'll be ready and glad to correct myself.
Thank you. |
When I have a negative comment on Bendis it doesn't mean I think "his RUN is a piece of crap." And, when I praise him I don't think his RUN is "legendary." This generalization has been made before and it's silly to think that if you like Bendis you are going to like EVERYTHING he does, or if you hate Bendis that you won't give him credit when he deserves it.
| Quote: | | And who said that she could "quantify Matt's senses" "based on observation"? Maybe you should've _paid more attention_ to my post. |
My original post regarding the senses as it pertains to the MP is that I felt it was most likely Echo who was to be in the story and that Elektra was a last minute replacment (based on the switched covers). I said that Elektra could not have betrayed Matt's senses to KP and that even if she had (which she didn't) she couldn't quantify their range (ie. tell KP how to bypass his senses to record him or prove he is DD). You then said that Ehco deduced his senses by "attentive observation." All I said is that if Echo had been the one to betray Matt to KP (if Bendis had put Echo in MP) that she too could not tell KP how to BYPASS them. That's all.
My apoligies for the clown and cabron remarks. I just don't like it when someone comes along and labels me (even indirectly) as this or that when it's false. Just as you disliked being labeled (directly) a clown or cabron when it too is false.
rgj |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| rgj wrote: | | Francesco originally wrote: | You know what I don't understand of some of you guys in this board? The fact that for you it's either black or white.
Or better, it's either "Bendis' run is nothing short of legendary" or "blah blah, it is a piece of crap/it's ridiculous/it sucks". |
When I have a negative comment on Bendis it doesn't mean I think "his RUN is a piece of crap." And, when I praise him I don't think his RUN is "legendary." This generalization has been made before and it's silly to think that if you like Bendis you are going to like EVERYTHING he does, or if you hate Bendis that you won't give him credit when he deserves it.
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Well, yes. I admit that I mixed my thoughts about it.
I should've said that I meant just the opinion about the MP storyarc, in the second part that I put into quotations.
Now the point in question is: Can the Murdock Papers storyarc by Bendis be considered a POC, just considering that some characters (Elektra, Urich...) in it weren't well "characterized"?
I don't think so. While I could agree that it's odd that Elektra went to the extent of revealing something so vital to the Kingpin as Matt's powers (even if it must be noted that in the same arc, she was there to help him when he needed, and also attempted to save his life and protect him by the FBI after he was wounded by Paladin; things which redeem her, in a certain sense), I think that the arc has also its redeeming qualities (the fight Vs Bullseye, as I said, the confrontation between KP and the FBI guy, the tension rising progressively, Matt in the tribunal), which prevent it to fall into the POC category. |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephan wrote: | | His [Bendis] works have always been uninspired and unoriginal. |
I disagree, here. His early indie work (Jinx, Powers, etc.) and Alias were very inspired and original.
He really got his start in Ultimate Spider-man, which I love but it is by definition not original. Still, it suited Bendis's Marvel superhero writing because he just had to retell the story of Spider-man from a different angle. It was a huge success and everyone thought Bendis could/should write Marvel superheroes. The same can be said about Bendis's DD, which you pointed out is just a rehash of a Chichester story (but Bendis was not cut-off before he could finish his plans). When it comes to creating new Marvel superhero plots and/or characters, Bendis is a bit of a mess. All he does is feed off hype. Bendis writing Marvel superheros (or DC for that matter) would be like Geoff Johns writing crime fiction for Caliber Comics.
If Bendis was still writing great indie stuff, I'd hunt it all down like I do Jim Mahfood's work. As it stands, I avoid Bendis comics like the plague.
_________________
"Flash is back. Worlds will die again!" |
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