Daredevil Message Board

[Isaac]

http://www.amazon.com/Daredevil-Miller-Omnibus-Companion-Market/dp/0785126767/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-4298743-1079119?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1173610048&sr=8-2

I'm sick of Miller. Who has not read this stuff already? Nocenti Omnibus, please. And Brubaker HC...

[MercifulAvatar]

While I agree there's a perception that Miller is the only good writer that ever worked on Daredevil, I could wait 'til the cows come home on a Nocenti Omnibus.

I'm re-reading her run now and I find myself struggling just to finish some issues. She's obviously a talented, hard-working writer, but I wonder: what do you (and anyone else who cares to comment) like about her DD work?
_________________
Poser

[Dimetre]

I think there were better Daredevil writers than Nocenti, but I can see why many here respect her so much.

She didn't just trot out Bullseye, Kingpin, Stilt-Man, Gladiator et al over and over again. She created exciting new villains like Typhoid, Bullet, Bushwhacker and Ammo. Karen Page was a stronger character than she had ever been under her pen. Nocenti was an author who had something to say; There was a message to receive with every issue. At times, for me, that approached preachiness.

I think the finest work I've ever read by Nocenti was outside her Daredevil work. I was very impressed with her Typhoid mini-series drawn by Jo Van Fleet. I think Typhoid brings the best out of her. As far as I know it's never been collected as a trade, but you should find it in the back issue bins, and it shouldn't cost too much.

Me, personally, I would love to see Denny O'Neil's work better collected. There is only a smattering of issues collected in Love's Labour Lost. His Micah Synn story was great, but was originally published in every other issue of Daredevil. Miller, O'Neil and Brubaker are probably my favourite Daredevil writers of all time.

[Isaac]

I really never have thought about O'Neil being one of the big Daredevil writers... O'Neil's Daredevil was superficial pulp fiction, everything was just bidimensional. Micah Sinn was just some kind of poor relative of Kraven the Hunter, ridiculous character I've never liked, and his arc was far too long (12 issues, as far I can tell). It is surely not the worst: the worst should be, by far, his take on Bullseye. Adamantium bones. Few numbers after "Roulette" (For me the best single number in the whole Miller's run). It was so cheap like Elektra nowadays... I can't see any remarkable thing in all his run. Well, it was not BAD, what's a miracle in the House of Ideas, but Miller had set certain standards. In fact, I think that Miller being a myth nowadays has something to do with he being followed by such a long dull O'Neil's run.
If it had been Miller-Nocenti or Miller-Chichester, maybe his shadow wouldn't be so long, and we would have had something else but only a Bullseye-Kingpin-Bullseye sucession.
The only good thing about him i can think about is that he divorced Foggy... Has someone noticed how old Foggy used to be with moustache? And then Maleev made him look like he was in his late 20's...

[rgj]

[Forrest]

[the truebeliever]

I agree with your points. I did love the Miller Daredevil run because I'm a Miller fan. Now I do believe that he is overhyped a little for the Daredevil run. I would rather take his work on Sin City (one of my favorite series) over his run on Daredevil just about anyday. If I had to see an omnibus of one of the writers on Daredevil after this Frank Miller one for the 1st series, I would choose D.G. Chichester. He finished off what Miller started with including the fall of the Kingpin. And I liked his run. Well, that's just my opinion.

[james castle]

Sadly there's no way on earth that there will ever be a Nocenti or Chichester omnibus. Neither of them are anywhere near well known enough to justify it.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dimetre]

[Acerbus]

Chichester's Daredevil was a turd. At best it was attempting to cash in on the 'dark' Image garbage from the early 90's. Daredevil fighting a great big demon in 'Fall from Grace' sounds more like Spawn than a killer noir-ish crime comic. I do have a guilty weakness for the black DD costume, but the writing (and, in my opinion, bad art by Scott McDaniel) made Daredevil nigh-unreadable for nearly the entirety of the 90's. Had it not been for Chichester's early work on the book with Lee Weeks, I'd say his whole run was a loss.

[james castle]

Ah, yes, Fall from Grace. The story in which DD fought a great big demon. How is that what you remember from Fall From Grace? First off, the whole voodoo demon angle wasn't exactly made up by Chichester. DD had fought voodoo bad guys before. Secondly, the demon was a fairly small part of Fall from Grace (a fairly large part of the twist ending but a fairly small part of the over all plot).

Chichester was great on DD. Last Rites was great. As far as I'm concerned it was one of the better DD/Kingpin stories that's been told in recent memory. As for Fall from Grace and the black costume, etc., Chichester openly says that he was trying to boast DD's profile. I feel like some people on this board weren't reading DD in the 90s. He was b-list like crazy (hence Ghost Rider and Wolverine showing up every third issue). I remember when the Fall from Grace prologue sold out and I was stunned. At least Chichester was trying to make DD something better.

If you want to see what really bad DD writing is go re-read Guardian Devil.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Pete]

Last Rites was great. In fact Chicester's early set of issues up until Last Rites was great. #300 itself was one of the best DD issues ever written.

But as for the rest...from #301 onward until the last Chicester issue, you can count the good stuff on one hand, easy easy the worst run of issues in the history of the book (and that says something when you think Gerry Conway once held the reigns). I mean who's the guy who said it was a turd? Give him a medal. Spot on.

I think I remember #305 being a pretty good read. And....that's about it. The worst time to be a DD fan, actually quite painful picking up the book each month to see it plummet to new depths.

As for being 'impressed' by over hyped issues 'selling out', big deal. This was the early 1990's. The speculators market that any comic book retailer will tell you nearly killed the industry was at its height, MaCfarline had sold something like 3 billion copies of his Spiderman #1, because speculators snapped up every foil imbossed, alternate cover, glow in the dark crap they could lay their hands on, hoping to sell them on for quick profit. Daredevil #319, and Fall from Grace for that matter, was just another small cog in this vast speculators market that had seen retailers, comic book companies, and not a few fans, get rather silly when it comes to money. Crap.

[james castle]

I barely remember Fall from Grace being hyped at all. It was the 90s and it was X-Men everytime, all the time. 319 sold out of quickly partly because of whatever hype there was but also because the cover was breath taking. It's simply an amazing image and I'm shocked that anyone walked into a comic shop without buying a copy.

Fall from Grace wasn't perfect and it has it's problems but it at least an attempt at something great. For my money it didn't fall too far off the mark.

And it was no where near the worst DD ever. The Kessel run was a sad throw back. Flying Blind was ridiculous and horrid. Playing to the Camera was a blight on all that is the comic industry. DeMattis' nonsense was just that.

For all it's faults Fall from Grace is light year beyond Guardian Devil in terms of story telling and characterization.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Pete]

[james castle]

You're right. Spider-Man #1 had too may varient covers. Therefore Fall from Grace was bad.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?