Daredevil Message Board

[Neilan]

If this has been done before, I apoligize. I'm new here.

These are my opinions. I'm only basing them on my views of the creator's work on Daredevil. Look forward to your thoughts.

1. Frank Miller - Revitalized the title and defined the character.

2. Brian Bendis - Quibble with the hype machine, the pacing, the mischaracterizations and liberal thievery (homage?) to Miller, the man knows how to write. He and Maleev have set the current standard for what this title looks and feels like.

3. Ed Brubaker - Another master technician, he writes outstanding, gritty, satisfying, neo-noir (that's the best term I could come up with - I'm not a writer). I wish he didn't, on occasion, have some lapses in logic that seem to be to create better audience accessibility.

4. Denny O'Neil - Following in Miller's footsteps couldn't have been easy, but O'Neil wrote some entertaining, if soap operaish, stories.

5. Roger(?) MacKenzie - You know, that guy who was writing when Frank Miller started penciling. They later co-wrote. Then MacKenzie was gone. I guess we should have seen the writing on the wall as far as what Miller was like. I thought MacKenzie gave Miller a nice launching pad.

6. Stan Lee - I would have expected that The Man who came up with the idea and created the character of the blind superhero would have ranked higher, but Stan's well was running dry as he was spread way too thin. Brian Bendis, take note. Stan could only come up with c-list villans for DD and figured if he switched to sunglasses and touseled his hair Matt Murdock could pass for Mike Murdock. The amazing thing is that he was right.

7. Ann Nocenti - She always had a message. And whether you agreed with them or not, she was not afraid to take chances. The constant preaching could get tiresome, at times, but she gave us Typhoid Mary and she gave us Bullet and she tried to grow the supporting cast. Remember the Bowery, uh I mean the Fat Boys. Very philosophical. Not for everybody.

8. David Mack - Another philosopher. Has a unique perspective. Fascinating interactive artistic style.

9. D. G. Chicester - Had a very good 1st half, something went terribly wrong in the 2nd half. May have been the result of management difficulties or unfortunate Artist pairing.

10. Marv Wolfman - Somewhat hokey, definitely old school. Did he have any idea what would become of Bullseye?

Well, thanks for indulging me. Please post your list.
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood!

[Acerbus]

I'll shave it down to five, because otherwise, this post is going to be awfully long. Also, I'm aware that Brubaker isn't on the list yet. I'd prefer to wait until his run has passed to judge him fully.

1) Denny O'Neill - Frank Miller may have redefined & popularized the character, but in my view, Denny nailed down the genre of the book: Noir / Crime book with less than subtle Romance comic undertones.(Disagree with me? Read some of Karen Page's romantic pining in Stan Lee's DD run) Instead of injecting the book with saccharine nonsense, though, he just amped up the drama. Heather Glenn killing herself due to Matt's selfishness was huge for me, and the scene when Matt realizes that she wasn't killed by burglars, but rather killed herself after he told her to leave him alone was haunting. Nothing Frank Miller ever did even approached that level of intensity.

2) Frank Miller - It's a blast to read his issues, and if I ever get turned off by Elektra's early 2000's overexposure and Greg Rucka's bad writing, all I have to do is read anything involving Elektra that Frank wrote, and she's instantly one of my favorite characters. It's also cool that in interviews, he seems to hint that Daredevil is alot more personal to him, whereas Batman was sort of a 'job'. He's also a really nice guy who gets METRIC TONS of unwarranted criticism from the comic buying public.

3) Brian Michael Bendis - Brian loved this character, and it showed. Never mind Alex Maleev's expressive art, Bendis turned Matt Murdock into more of a human, and Daredevil into an inhuman beast that never seems to be defeated while in costume. It made DD into a mythical force that Matt seems only to use as a last resort, so when he finally appears in full costume, glaring at a bunch of criminals, I got goosebumps.

4) Stan Lee - He took alot of chances on this book, and that's why I think Daredevil has stuck around as long as he has. Aside from the obvious fact that Matt's blind, he also began the book on a street-level note. His first enemy was a Mafia lord, not a Cosmic Wizard or some other such hyperbolic fiend that probably would have made him more popular. The first issue also ended on a slightly downbeat note, as Daredevil didn't get to exact revenge on the Fixer when he died of a heart attack. It was really untypical Stan Lee writing and you could tell that he was trying to take as many chances as he could to make Daredevil a really unique comic, which it is.

5) Kevin Smith - I used to hate his run, until I read it in collected form, when it really began to speak to me. It's clear that Kevin Smith really liked the character and wanted to do right by him, and he seems to make every effort to respect what has been done before on Daredevil. The climax of the Mysterio arc was huge, and it isn't mentioned enough that Kevin Smith really wrote Bullseye well - I genuinely found myself hating this smug villain who never seemed to lose.

[Francesco]

My picks (I'll reduce it to a top five, otherwise it would lose significance):


1) Ed Brubaker
1) Frank Miller (ex-aequo)
3) Danny O'Neill
4) Ann Nocenti
4) Brian Micheal Bendis (ex-aequo)

[Dimetre]

1. Frank Miller
2. Denny O'Neil
3. Ed Brubaker
4. David Mack
5. Ann Nocenti
6. J. M. DeMatteis
7. Roger MacKenzie
8. Kevin Smith
9. Marv Wolfman
10. Karl Kesel

[Forrest]

1. Stan Lee
2. DG Chichester
3. Frank Miller
4. Ed Brubaker
5. Karl Kesel
6. Joe Quesada
7. David Mack
_________________
"Flash is back. Worlds will die again!"

[Pete]

1. Nocenti - 100% Original. Clever, thought provoking and one 'Hell' of a ride. Like nothing before or since. Loved every minute she was on the book.

2. Miller - Even without the majestic Born Again, his original run of issues alongside Janson revolutionised more than just one character. He shook the whole industry. Fresh, young and vital, his energy levels alone put his contempories to shame.

3. Lee - Divine insparation. Yeah, a blind lawyer indeed. Although much older than Miller when each were at the helm of the book, the vitality and energy levels on show during each of his tales still show up today as well.

4. Thomas - The only guy around at the time who had any chance of taking Lees original template and making it even better. So he did. Thomas/Colan produced some amazing issues.

5. Shooter - Brief but beautiful. Just read the handful of issues written by Shooter and drawn by Gil Kane. It's pre- Miller Miller. Forget all the crap written about him as Marvel EIC. True or false its a FACT that this guy is the most underrated DD writer ever.

6. Bendis - Just what Vol 2 needed at the time. A long term investment with its own identity. Bendis/Maleev were stellar, they mature like a fine wine and will get their just recognition by every DD fan in about 20 years time. Probably.

7. Wolfman - DD gets 'street level' for the first time. The Copperhead two parter and the Jester trilogy still stand out today.

8. Kesel - Returning the character to its much needed core values and origins might not be original, but it was much needed after the aimless wanderings and loss of direction of many of the preceeding years. Also, it was fun. Nord was also the ideal artist for this return to roots. It was an absolute joy to pick up the book again.

9. Gerber - Uneeven, inconsistant, but some great issues. A very clever writer who showed the odd glimpse of the cleverness to his DD readership.

10. DeMatteis - Applyed the brakes to years of descent. Started the uphill climb and handed the reigns to Kesel. Between them both, they saved the book.

No, I haven't forgotten Denny O'Neill or Roger MacKenzie, both great writers. On another day both could be anywhere between 6 - 10

[james castle]

Good
1. Frank Miller
2. Ann Nocenti
3. DG Chichester
4. Brian Bendis
5. Ed Brubaker

Crap
1. Stan Lee
2. J. M. DeMatteis


Sub-Crap
1. Kevin Smith
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[markc]

1. Miller - Groundbreaking, not just for DD but for comics.
2. Bendis - An excellent, long run that took DD to new places, while staying true to the Miller roots.
3. O'Niell- Solid stories and great characterizations. Most under-rated writer in DD history. Read Love's Labor Lost.
4. Brubaker - Maybe too early to rank him this high, but so far it's everything I'd want in DD, it's grounded in the best DD traditions, yet fresh with excellent storytelling and real mystery angles.
5. Lee - His run had some high points and low points, but he created the character (with Bill Everett) and that swashbuckling style is still present from time to time.
6. Shooter - brief but great. he really changed the tone of the book and set the table for Miller.

[rgj]

1) Frank Miller. His only mistep was turning Elektra into a Typhoid Mary knock off in Man Without Fear.

2) Ann Nocenti. How could you possibly follow Born Again? Easy, get a fantastic writer like Ann. Created some villains that have the potential to be worthwhile if someone wrote them with respect. Made great stuff out of Marvel cross-overs (Inferno, Acts of Vengeance) and, by God, what a ride it was going up-state New York. I love jc's line about the Blind Boxer saga. In Born Again, Frank Miller showed us that Matt was a hero when he wasn't Daredevil. In Blind Boxer, Ann showed us that Matt was a hero when he wasn't . . . Matt.

3) D.G. Chichester. Well, #292-300. Without a doubt the greatest DD/Kingpin confrontation (Last Rites) of ALL TIME. Made Bendis's DD/KP tussle look like it was written by a 3rd grader. And, as I've said before, the greatest at writing DD's hypersenses. It's almost silly how no one even comes close to him in that regard. The #292-#300 stretch rivals anyting Miller did (yeah, I know, that's saying a lot). Oh, and did I mention he was the only writer to write Matt as a man in control as opposed to a victim of circumsatce (which just about every other writer has done post-Miller, mayhaps in an attempt to redo Miller).

Others of note.

Denny O'Neil. Good stuff by Den. Issue #200 is the second best DD/Bulls confronation of all time (behind Miller's Roulette one shot/epilogue).

Jim Shooter. Jim got some flack for not getting some of that English talent in the 80's as EIC. A hardass? Yeah, but you also didn't see any late comics then. And, he kept DD from getting cancelled when he hired Miller and he kept Frank in line when Frank wanted DD to go Punisher. Makes Joey Q (as EIC) look like a 1st grader. Oh, yeah, writing, like Pete said, underrated.

Bendis. Overall good stuff. Started off strong but eventually his "one long arc" turned into "one too long of an arc." Murdock Papers is one of the crappiest stories of all time for reasons I've stated before. Oh, and what's the deal with everyone knowing that Matt has hypersenses. In a world of mutants, magicians, gods and cosmic powered beings, there could be other reasons Matt is DD. Nope, Bendis gave the Marvel Universe Handbook to all other Marvel characters without explination. Oh, and Dan "the bomb," crap!, Murdock Papers proportion crap! Still, Bendis did have his moments.

Brubaker. This guy has potential to be one of the greats. Let's watch him closely. As long as he doesn't have a sniper (yeah, I know, "just past" his senses and radar range) kill Matt and have Iron Fist take over the horns.

rgj

[Francesco]

[rgj]

C'mon, Bendis had guys like Iron Fist and Luke Cage ("Still got that radar of yours, Matt, flip it on and see if there are any drugs in this building) and Gladiator know that Matt was DD (and hypersenses) without explanation. When did these guys get in the loop?? He wrote it as if was already set in stone.

I always thought the Bulls thing in TES was a bit far fetched (almost forced). What? All it took him was a couple of days to do all that detective work? I had a tonsillectomy when I was a kid and I'm pretty sure even I couldn't find any doctor's reports on it, you know. But, anyway, I'm not insisting that one could not investigate and reach an educated guess like Bulls or the FBI, but Bendis had EVERYONE in the know. And, that was crappy.

But, anyway, enough with our one minor disagreement, feel free to tell me how great and insightful and dead on! the rest of my post was
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rgj

[Francesco]

Well, you already know it was.
Still, I personally didn't put Nocenti among the best, because sometimes I just couldn't get what she was trying to say.

[Forrest]

...you know, if I was asked to rank the best writers on DD, Nocenti would be in the top 5. However, if I'm asked to rank the best Daredevil writers, that's a different story. I feel the same about Bendis. Both wrote great stories with DD in them but not great DD stories.
_________________
"Flash is back. Worlds will die again!"

[Neilan]

[Neilan]

Let's close this thread down with the results of the Top 5 Daredevil writers of all time!! I'm using top 5 because the 9 ultra-knowledgeable, arbiters-of-all-that-is-DD who responded, all gave a top 5. The methodology that I used is I reversed the scale so that a ranking of 1 is given a score of 5, etc. This way the average score can be viewed in the context of its distance from zero. If a writer wasn't listed in the top five, they were given a score of 0. For Francesco's rankings, since he had ties, I assigned rankings based on the order that he listed them. Hopefully, this doesn't misrepresent your opinion, Francesco. So, here are the mean scores (the number of times the writer was listed among the top 5, is in parentheses):

4.44 (9) - Frank Miller
2.11 (6) - Denny O'Neill
1.78 (6) - Ed Brubaker
1.78 (5) - Ann Nocenti
1.56 (5) - Brian Michael Bendis
1.22 (4) - Stan Lee
1.11 (3) - D.G. Chichester
0.22 (2) - Jim Shooter
0.22 (1) - David Mack
0.22 (1) - Roy Thomas
0.11 (1) - Karl Kesel
0.11 (1) - Roger MacKenzie
0.11 (1) - Kevis Smith
_________________
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!