Daredevil Message Board

[james castle]

So I picked up this trade last week and just finished it. Here are some random thoughts:

Once again I'm shocked that people on the board made such a big deal over the Karen-smell thing. I remember when the issues were coming out people were debating whether Karen was going to come back or not. As far as I'm concerned nothing in the comics actually suggested that.

Overall I'm liking Bru's stuff although some stuff is a little sloppy. Matt goes to France and the second or third character he runs into is named "Pierre"? That's a little lazy as far as I'm concerned. What I did like, however, is the extensive use of internal dialogue as well as Matt's use of his senses.

As for the overall plot. I don't know. I liked the adventure in Europe thing and I really liked the showdown with Vanessa. In face, I sort of liked the whole thing but then it sort of hit me that this is how the "out" plot ends.

The final issue in the trade is the "reset" issue. I knew that the reset button was pressed but this is a little nuts. 24 pages of resetting madness. I think it's cool that things are back to normal (and it's super cool that Becky joined the firm) but the whole thing seems like a bit of a let down. When Bendis outed Matt he swore up and down that there wouldn't be an easy fix. Guess what? Vanessa having "FBI contacts" = easy fix. Even the most interesting aspect of the whole thing (Matt having to work for the Kingpin) was covered in about 2 pages. While I was reading I actually thought "cool, Matt's gonna work for the Kingpin for a while" and then I turned the page and was like "oh".

My last gripe is that Milla didn't get enought attention in the final issue. I sense that she's being sidelined again which sucks because she's by far Matt's most interesting girlfriend in a long time (and perhaps ever).

I love Bru's characterization of Matt but other than that the whole thing was good but not great.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[harryhausen]

I understand what you’re saying about Devil Takes a Ride, for sure.

I like the internal monologue and the laconic pacing of the story and am all for the V. Fisk showdown, but I’m not as upset as other people about this “Reset Button” stuff. [And I freely admit to being a newish reader, less wronged by a quick reset.]

I mean, didn’t Brubaker basically take a year and two arcs to reset? That doesn’t strike me as a quick fix, just Murdock getting back on track. Also, isn’t it fair to say that it remains to be seen whether or not it’s reset? I interpreted the ending of this to be that he’s out of hot water legally (not in prison, no charges pending, able to practice law), but elements of the press, public and superhero community know he’s DD, in a big way.

If Brubaker goes forward as if nothing ever happened, then I hear you – it’s reset. But if Matt has to wrestle with protecting the technicality of his identity from the authorities, press, etc. and these problems keep coming up, then I don’t know if it’s reset, just reduced to a manageable level where Brubaker can deal realistically with the legal/identity problems and still write crime-fighting stories.

What I don’t know is how DD’s gonna avoid getting scooped up by legions of SHIELD shock troops one night at a liquor store robbery. Or they’ll lift Murdock out of a routine deposition at opposing counsel’s office – I mean, they know he’s one and the same. I like that they kept DD out of Civil War, but for how long can this go on? Maybe Stark just likes Daredevil and is gonna concede the Kitchen to him? Seems the cops there won’t arrest him. Which is very cool . . .

[Dimetre]

Daredevil #32, in which Matt was outed in the press, came out in June of 2002. Brubaker's reset issue came out in March of 2007. That's coming on five years. It may have been hurried, but given that this plot had been allowed to linger for close to half a decade, if things had to be wrapped up lickety-split, I would think it to be warranted. I, for one, was more than tired of Bendis' "Out" plot. I'm happy it's not front and centre anymore. Besides, hurried or not, Brubaker did a fantastic job wrapping it up.

[james castle]

Hey, I agree. I'm happier with Matt back practicing law with his secrety identity, kinda, intact.

I guess I'm just sort of pointing out that Bendis was lying all those years ago when he claimed or at least strongly implied that there wasn't going to be some magical fix for the problem. It doesn't get a whole lot more magical that vague "FBI connections". The whole "Vanessa pulls some strings" thing could have happened at literally anytime over the last 5 years.

Again, I'm happy things are moving back (or have moved back, I should say) to normal. All I'm saying is that when the whole Out thing started we were led to believe that it wasn't gonig to magically disappear. It was going to be an issue that was explored and worked out in a unique way. Instead Matt was outed, he stayed outed for a while, Matt went to jail, everyone got a little bored of the outing stuff. Bru waves a wand.

A little disappointed, that's all.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Neilan]

[james castle]

No, it's with Bendis. In old interview Bendis used to give the impression that he had it all worked out. I think he even went so far as to say something along the lines of how he had a beginning, middle and end to the Out story. Obviously not. It's not like Bendis was forced off DD. He gave it up. Surely if he had a sensible ending he would have stuff around to use it. I bet he would have trimmed some of his later arcs too.

Either that or he'd tell Bru what he had planned. I doubt Bru scrapped a clever Bendis ending in favour of Vanessa waving a magic wand.

Therefore Bendis was clearly lying.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Forrest]

Matt was practicing law up until his imprisonment in The Murdock Papers. Now, two story arcs later, he's practicing law again. Brubaker never reversed 'Out' which was a outing of public perception. That's still there. People still think Matt is DD.

So, I don't see what all the fuss is about.
_________________
"Flash is back. Worlds will die again!"

[Neilan]

james castle wrote:

[straygoat]

I got the TPB last week, have read it, and pretty much hate it!

The thing I liked about Bendis' run (apart from some pacing problems) was that it changed the status quo and we finally having a 'hero' doing something unusual; taking over as Kingpin to end the crime in Hell's Kitchen.

This whole reset thing has left me bitterly disappointed - we're back to square one and nothing has really changed. On top of that, we have had yet another 'character dies but hasn't really died' moment. And then there's that whole convoluted cop-out plot with Vanessa which seemed completely out of character...I'm not buying her illness induced bitterness.

To top it all off, there was one scene in Spain or France where Matt goes on the prowl in his DD costume and says he can't risk getting caught dressed as DD while Rand is playing him back home. Then why on earth would he wear the DD suit? Just makes no sense at all! He'd just put a ski mask on and be a burglar for the night. Lazy writing from start to finish and has left a bad taste in my mouth...enough to make me stop buying the DD TPBs for a while.

Say what you want about Bendis, but at least he offered us something new that put Matt in danger.

[Dimetre]

[Neilan]

Dimetre wrote:

[wyu]

Does putting Matt in danger equal to a good story? Is a story not good unless it tears Matt’s life to shreds? It is true that misfortunes can lead to incredibly engaging stories, but there are plenty of other types of good stories that don’t require sending the main character’s life to hell.

Devil Takes A Ride is such a story. It started out as a noir detective story, and it stays true to the theme throughout the arc. I admit that the one-issue reset thing is a bit strained, but that doesn’t take away the engaging plot in the earlier part of the story. DD traveled to Europe to investigate Foggy’s death, and for the most part, Ed did a good job telling such a simplistic tale. I don’t know about you, but I was very interested in who’s really behind the entire incident. So I stayed on and bought all the issues, and I wasn’t a bit disappointed at how it turns out. The use of Karen Page’s smell was interesting, and it kept half the board guessing for the identity of the mastermind. People got into heated debate because they are interested in the plot. I doubt many people really, I mean really, guessed that Vanessa was behind the whole thing, and it was a nice surprise that isn’t exactly strained. That, in my definition, is a good story. Not stellar, but definitely does not suck.

Personally, I am very excited that Ed Brubaker is returning DD to a more crime-fighting theme. Being a super hero is the original reason why we loved DD, so I don’t see why the big fuzz is about this reset. I’m sure we all want to see DD investigate a crime with his wits and super senses, as well as him serving justice as a lawyer. So why is it that when a writer finally writes such a story, everyone just turned away from it because DD is apparently not “in danger” any more? Just because the story doesn’t have the huge hype that every other Marvel book seems to have, doesn’t mean it is not worth following.

I just really don’t see why there are so many Brubaker-haters. To me, Bendis’s run has a lot of problems. Many of his stories were good when read in a collection; issue by issue, I could see people dropping it midway because it really was quite slow and inconsistent. I won’t even go into the continuity errors that he had created. Brubaker managed to make a smooth transition and he is doing a good job cleaning up the mess that Bendis had created. Bendis’s run was not bad as a whole, but Brubaker’s story telling is simply better.

But then, everyone has their own preferences, I guess

[straygoat]

Well the reason I have got in such a state about the 'reset' is because Marvel have dropped the ball. Here was a golden opportunity to shake things up and show a more realistic and adult take on what it would take and cost to be a vigilante (in the Marvel Universe). To me, DD has always been a more adult orientated, edgy book and it has been too safe for too long. Bendis made things interesting by having Matt do something we've not really seen before - replace his nemesis and lay down the law. To me, it was something unexpected and made me think.

Now we are back to safe old square one, where Matt has his law practice and can go out at night as DD. He will fight crime, face a few obstacles, overcome them and win, ready for the next issue when he will do the same again.

Marvel could have really made DD stand out from the crowd with Bendis and then the follow up. I would have found it much more interesting to have Matt stay in prison for a while and remain powerless as his enemies attacked his friends. Wouldn't it have been better to see Matt released as an ex-con with no career left and a whole host of villains baying for his blood. And all the time having to deal with the guilt of what his actions have caused (both the harm to his friends and to himself)? That is the direction I feel Marvel should have taken DD, not the reset so he can be just like any other costumed hero but with slightly different powers.

It's my belief that the problem with most comics today is that they are stale - stuck in the status quo. Good stories and characters are always about development, change, and overcoming adversity. Unfortunately, we don't see much lasting change these days. And changes that are reset after a year just seem like a waste of time to me.

I am so disappointed.

[Dimetre]

[wyu]