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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Francesco wrote: | | Wait till you see its sequel: "Revenge by ingestion of bean soup" |
If you're writing it, I'm reading it.  |
Really? Cool! I'll start right now. It will be, as they say at Marvel, a "sense shattering" fanfic. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | a "sense shattering" fanfic. |
I'll be waiting eagerly to read it. 
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | Revenge by Deodorant (...)
Let me know what you think!  |
Well, I just read it and... Yay! it's just grand! Some comments follow
(For those of you who have not yet read the fanfic, do it before reading further, otherwise you might get mildly spoiled)
It is really, really very good, I have enjoyed it a lot... The annoying neighbour is well portrayed in a few strokes: he's a patronising male chauvinist.... possibly for cultural-heritage reasons (incidentally, much as I do garlic jokes myself, I must say that this delicious liliale greatly enhances many delicious recipes, and its consumption is good for health, too)
Very good charactherizations. I liked you reminding readers of the fact that Matt had not always been blind, and therefore he may have an idea about how certain things look. The description of his perception of odours is spot-on (and makes us fully understand his reluctance to visit drugstores, LOL).
I also liked Spidey's appearance... Mind you, I'm not a suscriber for excessive chumminess between Matt and Peter, so I like your suggestion that they are good friends, but not very close ones, out of costume, with Peter feeling a bit out of context (BTW, I suppose this scene happens shortly before Pete's self unmasking? ). I also liked the passing remark on aluminium which remids us that Peter is a chemistry whiz. The suggestion that Peter might be a guy who needs a good deodorant is riotous, too.
Nice off-screen cameo by Dakota, too... Damn! this woman can really get a hold of a lot of things, can't she?
and, well, how can't I love a story that has Muppets, Smurfs and singing Gorilla-grams?
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | I also liked Spidey's appearance... Mind you, I'm not a suscriber for excessive chumminess between Matt and Peter, so I like your suggestion that they are good friends, but not very close ones, out of costume, with Peter feeling a bit out of context (BTW, I suppose this scene happens shortly before Pete's self unmasking? ). I also liked the passing remark on aluminium which remids us that Peter is a chemistry whiz. The suggestion that Peter might be a guy who needs a good deodorant is riotous, too.
Nice off-screen cameo by Dakota, too... Damn! this woman can really get a hold of a lot of things, can't she?
and, well, how can't I love a story that has Muppets, Smurfs and singing Gorilla-grams? |
Thanks Gloria! That means a lot to me. I actually provided a background to this story that unfortunately didn't get included regarding Peter being slightly out of continuity. In the background I mentioned that I had to ignore the fall-out of Civil War and Spider-man's subsequent unmasking.
And yes, the decision to use Peter Parker for this story was based on the fact that they have the kind of relationship that would make bumping into each other at the drugstore really awkward, and that Peter knows much more than Matt about chemistry and things like that. While I'm sure Matt can remember and recognize a great number of different smells, I doubt that he would know the names of most of these compounds or what they are for.
The inclusion of Dakota was to make fun of the fact that she seems to have connections everywhere, and I thought it would be funny if she really did have connections in the gorilla-gram business.
Again, thanks for your comments.
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | I actually provided a background to this story that unfortunately didn't get included regarding Peter being slightly out of continuity. In the background I mentioned that I had to ignore the fall-out of Civil War and Spider-man's subsequent unmasking. |
I must say that, not being an enthusiast of big crossovers, I tend to forget about the details. Still, I think Spidey might be able to go to drugstores after his unmasking and before certain earth-shattering events in his own series... But then, we might need a Civil War/Spiderman expert to clear it up LOL
| jumonji wrote: | | And yes, the decision to use Peter Parker for this story was based on the fact that they have the kind of relationship that would make bumping into each other at the drugstore really awkward, and that Peter knows much more than Matt about chemistry and things like that. While I'm sure Matt can remember and recognize a great number of different smells, I doubt that he would know the names of most of these compounds or what they are for. |
Yes, IMHO, this is the right tone to depict the relationship between DD and Spidey, a friendly and trusty one, for sure,... but is is, mainly a "work" relationship: and as in many work relationships, you can have a good feeling with someone at the office, but feel a bit awkward if you meet him/her one day out of work.
| jumonji wrote: | | The inclusion of Dakota was to make fun of the fact that she seems to have connections everywhere, and I thought it would be funny if she really did have connections in the gorilla-gram business. |
Yes, I believe that this is the kind of thing that she could know about, apart from crime investigation: I love what Brubaker is doing with her in the series... and notice she doesn't get extensive appearances, but she makes the most of a two-pannel or one page apperances per issue. I don't know if yu have read the recent annual, but she appears there and has a rather funny interaction with another character.
| jumonji wrote: | | Again, thanks for your comments. |
Well, thanks for your fanfic . It's really good, and this is something to say as DD generates high-quality fanfic (as seen here or in other DD webplaces)... I could drop you an idea if you feel like developing it: I had sketched a "Foggy meets sister Maggie" idea, but it always looks terrible the following morning.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Well, thanks for your fanfic . It's really good, and this is something to say as DD generates high-quality fanfic (as seen here or in other DD webplaces)... I could drop you an idea if you feel like developing it: I had sketched a "Foggy meets sister Maggie" idea, but it always looks terrible the following morning. |
Foggy meets Sister Maggie, huh? I could work with that...  Maybe. I'll give it some thought. That would probably be a slightly more serious one though. I can see myself getting addicted to the whole fanfic thing. It's really a lot of fun (I'm actually working on a Foggy/Matt in college fic right now called "Hung over." We'll see if I ever get to finish it).
Again, thanks for the compliment. I really like writing, but I haven't written much since I was in school. And, yes, there's a lot of good DD fanfiction out there, and I think I've read most of it. I think DD works fairly well in "plain text" format, so that may be part of it. I wouldn't say that he's easy to write, but I think he works well if you get him right.
On a different note...
One thing that felt natural to me when I wrote this story, but that I think might feel strange to some people, is the fact that I actually have Matt ask Peter to help him, for reasons other than keeping up appearances (even though that's part of it). I really tried to get into his head, perception-wise when I wrote this story and tried to think of what he would and wouldn't be able to do, and decided that, while asking someone with decent eyes to pitch in might not be absolutely necessary, it would certainly be much faster. One of Matt's obvious weak points is not being able to scan for visual information quickly. Imagine having to touch every single book on a bookshelf to find the one you're looking for, rather than just quickly looking for it, taking in a lot of information in a single sweep.
With the whole wrapping paper thing, I figured that some people might feel that he should be able to discern the pattern, but I tend to subscribe to the notion that his senses (no matter how good they are) shouldn't be able to pick up something that just isn't there. For the same reason he can't hear a dog fart in Long Island (because sound simply doesn't travel that far), or smell something that isn't physically in the air, he shouldn't be able to make sense of a surface that shows no relationship between the structure of the surface and the images on it. With newspaper print there's that ink versus ink-free paper thing that really does make sense to me, but with images you would usually have the same amount of ink everywhere, and also the added complexity of the images themselves. You would also have to intellectually associate that information (in the event that you could actually perceive it) with some twenty-year-old visual memory and try to make sense of it. So I basically decided that Peter would be MUCH better than Matt at picking out wrapping paper.
Like I said, this isn't a problem for me at all, but I've come across some people (though not on this message board) who seem to think that the idea that Matt has any form of disability in any way is absolutely preposterous. I honestly don't get that kind of reasoning. To me that is like saying that being able to tell what everyone at the movie theater had for breakfast actually compensates for the fact that you can't see the movie. I have no problem at all reconciling DD's spectacular ass-kicking ability with his probably less than spectacular ability to color coordinate. Because of all his heightened senses and the radar sense, I doubt that Matt feels that his blindness is a big problem (and as Daredevil, his physiology is actually a huge advantage), but I would be very surprised if he didn't at least occasionally think of it as a slight nuisance. This, to me, became apparent when trying to write him in an everyday, very out-of-costume situation.
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Foggy meets Sister Maggie, huh? I could work with that... Maybe. I'll give it some thought. That would probably be a slightly more serious one though. I can see myself getting addicted to the whole fanfic thing. It's really a lot of fun (I'm actually working on a Foggy/Matt in college fic right now called "Hung over." We'll see if I ever get to finish it). |
I'll send you, during the week, a resume of my jumbled sketch of the idea (if that may help): I wanted to give it a tone of comedy, but then, some things popped up which, yes, might give it a more serious tone... among other things, both Matt and Foggy have both, hum, troublesome mother issues.
A Matt&Foggy College fic sounds a terrific idea, it's a relatively virgin territoire in both their stories.
| jumonji wrote: |
On a different note...
One thing that felt natural to me when I wrote this story, but that I think might feel strange to some people, is the fact that I actually have Matt ask Peter to help him, for reasons other than keeping up appearances (even though that's part of it). I really tried to get into his head, perception-wise when I wrote this story and tried to think of what he would and wouldn't be able to do, and decided that, while asking someone with decent eyes to pitch in might not be absolutely necessary, it would certainly be much faster. One of Matt's obvious weak points is not being able to scan for visual information quickly. Imagine having to touch every single book on a bookshelf to find the one you're looking for, rather than just quickly looking for it, taking in a lot of information in a single sweep.
With the whole wrapping paper thing, I figured that some people might feel that he should be able to discern the pattern, but I tend to subscribe to the notion that his senses (no matter how good they are) shouldn't be able to pick up something that just isn't there. For the same reason he can't hear a dog fart in Long Island (because sound simply doesn't travel that far), or smell something that isn't physically in the air, he shouldn't be able to make sense of a surface that shows no relationship between the structure of the surface and the images on it. With newspaper print there's that ink versus ink-free paper thing that really does make sense to me, but with images you would usually have the same amount of ink everywhere, and also the added complexity of the images themselves. |
Yes, as a printer, I think that Matt would be able to read black-on-white (or single ink) printed matter without much difficulty, but a full-colour print (where the image is created by the juxtaposition of four process colours) would be difficult for him to read, unless there was one colour predominating over the rest: otherwise all he would read is a jumbled mass of dots. And certainly decorative patterns -as in wrapping paper- are more difficult to read than a text.
Still, there would be room for "iffier" perceptions: I've just started a work-related seminar on theory of colour and its measurement for print processes, and there is something in the nature of light that is, well, related to radar! I cannot explain much more right now, but when the seminar is over in december I think I'll be able to make an interesting contribution to the "Iffy powers" thread.
And yes, sometimes people forgets that Matt is blind, even Miller, at times, made him so safe about his senses, that it seemed that he didn't mind, or didn't miss, his sight. But self-reliant as Matt is thanks to his other senses, he's still unable to see.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | And yes, sometimes people forgets that Matt is blind, even Miller, at times, made him so safe about his senses, that it seemed that he didn't mind, or didn't miss, his sight. But self-reliant as Matt is thanks to his other senses, he's still unable to see. |
And I actually thought Miller was one of the better writers in this regard. I think there is probably a dissertation in there somewhere for anyone who wants to investigate the portrayal of DD's blindness throughout the history of the comic. I think so much of it has depended on how society has viewed it at the time, though.
It is obvious that if you're going to take a character based on a gimmick ("justice is blind") and make him believable as a blind superhero, you're going to have to equip him with some pretty special powers. However, I think that in the early comics (I personally think of this period as DD's "handicapable" days), the writers were so afraid of portraying his blindness as having any negative connotations at all that they kept dropping these "my other senses more than compensate" remarks on every other page. This may have been done in order to lessen some of the stigma, I don't know. I still enjoy the early days a lot, and I think the whole "supercrip" thing actually goes hand in hand with the slightly outdated portrayal of women that we've already covered.
I've actually been working on a rather lengthy (and probably overly geeky and academic) post that I'm getting ready to submit, regarding the radar sense and why the nature of this sense doesn't replicate the subjective experience of seeing, so I guess we'll have to continue this discussion over there.
Yes, I do spend way too much time on this message board.
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Funny fanfic, Christine! I hate to go into drugstores for exactly that reason: the overpowering smells from every side. Thank goodness I can't tell that some kid threw up in aisle 3!
Good job on Peter Parker: Personal Shopper. Great idea, and loved how you played in his technical knowledge with the ever-present self doubt that HE might be the "offending friend". Putting these two together in a civilian setting was a lot of fun.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: |
And I actually thought Miller was one of the better writers in this regard. |
yes, I'd say that in his first run, and then in "born Again" it was so, but then in his "Man without fear" mini I felt there were moment when his blindness didn't seem to be a trouble. In fact, even girls at College were making advances to him cause they though he was so hot, whereas in the original stories, people tended to "pity" him (i.e. Elektra refuses at first to date him because she thinks he's "crippled", when matt reveals her her senses, radar and habilities, she changes her mind about the guy she considered a "poor bling boy")
| jumonji wrote: | | Yes, I do spend way too much time on this message board. |
Oh, I'm terribly guilty of that, meself, LOL
I think it will be interesting to read your theory, when you have it ready.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji, in the recent fanfic wrote: | | He was also like the slightly older . and slightly cooler . cousin someone like himself might want to impress in order to gain access to his video games. |
That's gold! |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Still, there would be room for "iffier" perceptions: I've just started a work-related seminar on theory of colour and its measurement for print processes, and there is something in the nature of light that is, well, related to radar! I cannot explain much more right now, but when the seminar is over in december I think I'll be able to make an interesting contribution to the "Iffy powers" thread. |
I'd be totally interested to hear what you learn at that seminar (being the science geek that I am)! And yes, both microwaves (commonly used by radar equipment) and light waves are forms of electromagnetic radiation, but I don't think that really promises much for DD's perception of color since he can't perceive visible light (other than in the form of heat). So, the whole color thing is still iffy to me, I'm afraid. It would be the same as if we would be able to see radio waves or ultra-violet light.
OMG, I'm such a geek. Oh, and speaking of geekiness, I just posted a poll on Matt's hair. Maybe I should join Milla at Bellevue or something. (Although, I was an exchange student at Bellevue High School outside Seattle twelve years ago...) 
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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In my mind, I pictured that fanfic drawn in the style of Giffen-Maguire.
Scary. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | I'd be totally interested to hear what you learn at that seminar (being the science geek that I am)! And yes, both microwaves (commonly used by radar equipment) and light waves are forms of electromagnetic radiation, but I don't think that really promises much for DD's perception of color since he can't perceive visible light (other than in the form of heat). So, the whole color thing is still iffy to me, I'm afraid. It would be the same as if we would be able to see radio waves or ultra-violet light. |
Yes, that was the idea: light, and visible colours, are only a tiny li'l part of the electromagnetic waves radiated by the sun... I'm not saying that Matt might "see" infra-red or ultra-violet radiation, but if he, in the twarted world of superheroic "Science", can have a radar, there's a chance that he could sense other electromagnetic stuff: you can choose between Gamma Rays, X-rays, Cosmic rays, Shortwave radio, TV waves and assorted types of radiation.
There are many "Iffy" DD moments, but they could get even "iffier"!
| jumonji wrote: | | Oh, and speaking of geekiness, I just posted a poll on Matt's hair. |
There's even worse ways to be geeky... Like voting in that poll! (Which I did, LOL)
| Francesco wrote: | | In my mind, I pictured that fanfic drawn in the style of Giffen-Maguire. |
BWAH-HAH-HAH!
That made my day
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Yes, that was the idea: light, and visible colours, are only a tiny li'l part of the electromagnetic waves radiated by the sun... I'm not saying that Matt might "see" infra-red or ultra-violet radiation, but if he, in the twarted world of superheroic "Science", can have a radar, there's a chance that he could sense other electromagnetic stuff: you can choose between Gamma Rays, X-rays, Cosmic rays, Shortwave radio, TV waves and assorted types of radiation. |
Actually, the powers profile on Marvel's page mentions that he can sense all kinds of radiation, so you're absolutely right. Then again, it also mentions that really weird sensing the "microvoltage of the human brain" bit that I'm not sure has ever been used. I don't think any writers have ever actually written him as being able to sense colors by means other than touch (I may be wrong, does anybody know?), and some have said outright that he is color blind. I'm not sure what source that information on the Marvel profile is taken from since I've never seen it anywhere else (and those profiles work like wikis, right?)
| Gloria wrote: | | There are many "Iffy" DD moments, but they could get even "iffier"! |
They certainly could. But I really hope they don't (Please God - sorry, I mean Bru - no more reading computer screens by touch...). I like his powers as they are now. To me, DD works best as a "low-powered" superhero, and I prefer him "real" (well, relatively) and street level. I wouldn't want him battling things from outer space either. His current powers seem pretty much in line with what's in the 2004 MUH. That is, totally impressive, but not completely out of this world. And yes, I know that quoting the MUH is beyond geeky... I think I might need to go into counseling or something.
| Gloria wrote: | | There's even worse ways to be geeky... Like voting in that poll! (Which I did, LOL) |
And I voted in my own poll! Although, I suppose I'm be expected to. Seems like most people like his hair fine though. Well, I like okay too (no big deal, really), but a touch of mousse wouldn't hurt.
| Francesco wrote: | | In my mind, I pictured that fanfic drawn in the style of Giffen-Maguire. |
I actually had to look them up. I'm such a rookie at this game.
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