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Batman (All Star and Confidential) ?
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Batman (All Star and Confidential) ? Reply with quote

So, I know this was probably beat to death when issue #1 came out (when was that? 2 years ago?), but do any of you read All-Star Batman (and Robin the blah-blah-blah)?

I bring this back up because many people (including, I believe, our pal Dave Wallace), are intimating that this series might be getting up on its feet a little. What with Miller and all, I thought that some DD freaks like ourselves might be up on it.

I’ll admit, too, that I like it a lot. In fact, other than the, uh, . . . delays, I don’t really understand all the criticism it’s receiving. It seems perfectly logical, but then I’m a bit of a drinker . . .

Also, I gotta say that I’m really liking this recent ‘Joker’ arc in Batman Confidential. I’m more excited about this book than any other Bat-Book, especially with this crazy family crossover thing that’s about to happen . . .

Thoughts on All Star and Confidential, people?
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I plan to buy All Star Bats when it comes out in trade. I'm a huge fan of Miller, ever in madcap mode (I liked DKR). Plus, I figure that by going in knowing what to expect I'll enjoy it more.

As for Confidential - I hear the new Joker arc is undoing what was done in the Killing Joke. Given that the Killing Joke is my favorite Batman comic of all time (and potentially comic period) I think this is a huge mistake. And ridiculous. And stupid. And I hate it.
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah, yeah – it definitely runs counter to Killing Joke in some key ways. And I love Killing Joke, too. I just read it as non-continuity fun. Or maybe another take on the Joker’s misrememberings?

Either way, it’s a cool characterization of him and the art is my cup of tea - scratchy with that weird, shifting anatomy thing. Cowan draws a super-crazy-looking Joker! He seems just apeshit out of his mind in a new way. And the plotting and pace are sure-handed, to boot.
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I´m buying All-Star Batman and Robin, but I´m not really enjoying it that much. I´m not enjoying Miller´s characterization of Batman. All the maniacal laughter? It doesn´t fit in with what I´ve come to know from the character. And I think he´s trying to use to many characters, which I think is a general problem with Batbooks these days. A whole issue that deals with the Black Canary, and she doesn´t seem to have much to do with the central plot so far. Samething with Barbara Gordon. I thought Superman was going to get involved, but he hasn´t appeared in several issues.

Great work by Jim Lee though.
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm here to say the Mr. Castle is totally right. Batman Confidential has come off the rails and is silly. Long live the Killing Joke.

I stand by all other things Bat (yes, ASB&RtBW, too), though.
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw this thread, so apologies for the delayed response.

I dropped Batman Confidential after the first couple of issues as it just didn't appeal to me - the story wasn't my kind of Batman story, and I wasn't a big fan of the art.

However, I've stuck with All-Star Batman despite the problems I have with it. I have a real love/hate relationship with the book. It seems to me that it's partly parody (and self-parody), partly an exploration of how a "realistic" (ie. psychopathic and borderline schizophrenic) Batman might operate, and partly an exercise in shocking readers and challenging their expectations. It's certainly not a Batman that I find particularly sympathetic or heroic, but it's still oddly compelling.

I do think that Miller has shown a very blasé attitude in his writing of the book - his plot is meandering and frequently feels as though it's being made up as he goes along, there are lots of inconsistencies in the story, loads of extended tangents that distract from the main story, Robin has been relegated to less than a supporting role, and the characterisation of several characters seems to be wilfully inaccurate (or, since this is a new continuity, consciously different to the well-known versions of the characters, for no apparent reason).

Still, the art is lovely, and I still find myself bizarrely compelled to read the book. Issue #8 is due out today, right? I'll be interested to see what Miller and Lee's new take on the Joker is like.
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think Miller's depiction of the Joker has turned out to be a highlight in the series so far. It is disturbing to imagine the Joker having sex, but then what follows is the Joker's "special kind of love." It is so twisted and the internal monologue during it is so methodical and chilling.

I can't finish this entry without commenting on the Joker's henchwoman, who I call Swastika nipples. I don't know how Miller's mind is working these days.
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Actually, I think Miller's depiction of the Joker has turned out to be a highlight in the series so far. It is disturbing to imagine the Joker having sex, but then what follows is the Joker's "special kind of love." It is so twisted and the internal monologue during it is so methodical and chilling.

Yes - I just finished reading this issue, and it was probably one of the best of the series so far. I liked his take on the Joker, I enjoyed Batman's antics a lot more than usual, and the Robin storyline actually seems to be going somewhere.

Dimetre wrote:
I can't finish this entry without commenting on the Joker's henchwoman, who I call Swastika nipples. I don't know how Miller's mind is working these days.

The same way it did when he wrote Dark Knight Returns, I guess... Smile

Check out the first few pages of the third issue of DKR, as that's where she first appeared.

It looks like Miller is making good on his claims that All-Star Batman takes place in the same universe as DKR - and the reference to the Joker's poisoning of the water supply ties it in with Year One, too.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the arc was supposed to end with #8 (i.e. the first trade should come out soon). But it sounds like that isn't the case. When's the trade coming out? When?
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last I heard, the trade was meant to collect issues #1-8 - but it doesn't seem like it from this issue, does it?
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Wallace wrote:

Dimetre wrote:
I can't finish this entry without commenting on the Joker's henchwoman, who I call Swastika nipples. I don't know how Miller's mind is working these days.

The same way it did when he wrote Dark Knight Returns, I guess... Smile

Check out the first few pages of the third issue of DKR, as that's where she first appeared.

It looks like Miller is making good on his claims that All-Star Batman takes place in the same universe as DKR - and the reference to the Joker's poisoning of the water supply ties it in with Year One, too.

I completely forgot about her. I haven't read The Dark Knight Returns in years. I also forgot about the Joker poisoning the water supply in Year One. So I guess this all takes place a little while after Year One. I don't remember Batman being such a maniac in Year One though.
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, this Batman seems VERY different to his Year One characterisation.

The reason the slightly crazy, bitter characterisation worked in DKR is that it presented a Batman of the future who had had time to grow and change, and become different to how we know the character. I don't think that characterisation works nearly as well for the young Batman.
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harryhausen
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Joined: 20 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, yes. The new issue of All-Star Batman is great. I, too, see a plot taking shape (I even have a theory about the direction thereof - I think the ties to the Dark Knight universe are important) and the characters are just getting better and better.

Nice review, Dave Wallace. Good eyes on the details.

Did you other Bat-people read Batman 671 and, previously, the other Ra's stuff? I'm liking it quite a bit, too. [Even Robin and Nightwing have been cool!] Can't get enough Batman, it seems.

Back to the point, though, I really think that this ASB&RtBW is going to end up being great. I bet reading it in trade would be fantastic (be patient, Castle. we're with you).
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

harryhausen wrote:
Yes, yes. The new issue of All-Star Batman is great. I, too, see a plot taking shape (I even have a theory about the direction thereof - I think the ties to the Dark Knight universe are important) and the characters are just getting better and better.

Nice review, Dave Wallace. Good eyes on the details.

Thanks! For anyone else that wants to read it, it's here:
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/119646129175684.htm

harryhausen wrote:
Did you other Bat-people read Batman 671 and, previously, the other Ra's stuff? I'm liking it quite a bit, too. [Even Robin and Nightwing have been cool!] Can't get enough Batman, it seems.

I'm only reading the regular title (that Morrison is writing) and haven't been buying the other tie-ins - so I didn't really know what was going on in the latest issue. Morrison didn't seem particularly interested either, if I'm honest. The art was quite nice though.
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the regular Batman title, I think Morrison's getting it together. I was worried about his take on the character, though, 'cause I'm such a fan of the Miller vibe in Batman. I've been reading the Bat Family of books for the crossover and think it's been excellent. I particularly liked the Nicieza entry in 'Nightwing' (a character I'm interested in, now) and the Benjamin art in 'Detective'.

Plus, I really like Ra's al Ghul - one of my favorite villains ever. Because, well, he's right. I think DC's doing a really nice job spreading this story around the 4 titles without it getting stupid. And I was a real skeptic about that. It could be a little too 'far Eastern' for some (thank Buddha that Batman underwent Thogal recently!), but I think it's been a nice ride.

Of course, I can't imagine that reading Batman 670 and then 671 without the other three in between would make much sense at all. That's, perhaps, a touch irresponsible of DC.
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