Daredevil Message Board

[jumonji]

I just deleted my post from the FAQ radar thread since it was just way too obnoxious, but I’d like to get people’s opinions on a few radar-related things that I’ve thought about (yes, I think too much, I know it’s not good for me). First of all, I’d like to make it clear that I’m not even talking about what the heck the radar sense actually is, since it’s been described at least a couple of different ways, but more about what it does and how Matt actually uses it. So what do you think about this, and is there anything you’ve reacted to? I’m genuinly curious to hear what people think, because I frankly have no idea.

Is the radar sense always active?
I’ve noticed that input from this sense has often been described as an afterthought in a kind of “Oh, I hear footsteps coming towards me and now (suddenly?) my radar is picking him up.” Of course, this could be due to the range of this sense not being very impressive (which would be explained in part by the inverse square law, but I’m not going too geek out completely). There have also been times when he’s said things like “I don’t even need my radar sense [for one thing or another].” Then there are the times he talks about actively “probing” his surroundings or “reaching out” or something like that which I guess means he can pull it back in, or what…? In a way it would make sense for it not to be “on” all the time like when he’s sleeping or sitting down.

Does using it require active concentration/attention?
This is tied in to the question above, but is a little different. While I doubt it would take much effort for him to get a decent “view”of his surroundings it does seem like he actually has to pay some amount of attention to what he’s doing. Why else would he have “radar problems” when he’s exposed to too much – essentially unrelated – stimuli? Hey, dump him in the perfume department at Macy’s during the big shopping weekend after Thanksgiving and he might actually need that cane…

Is the radar sense better at picking out dense objects?
It seems to me that he has always been very good at picking out guns, and knives and things like that while at the same time basically being unable to “see” faces or facial expressions (at least according to Frank Miller and most other writers). Like he might be able to recognize someone by overall shape and movements but doesn’t really know what they look like. Real radars (if that’s what his is) are much better at picking up metal and very dense objects as well, so this makes sense I suppose, but has anyone else thought about this?
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The Other Murdock Papers

[rgj]

[jumonji]

[rgj]

Wow, and I wasn't even trying to offend. Really. If you feel I was being rude, I apologize.

As for wanting "waves" to be defined because you are a scientist, the book entry mentions something about Matt's brain and the "electromagnetic spectrum."

I don't know the frequency of these waves, but it is obviously a frequency that Matt can sense.

The problem with MSJ and Bendis's definiton (Bendis's includes the sum of ALL his senses) is that Matt has lost his radar before in the comic yet still retained all his heightened senses.

rgj

[jumonji]

[rgj]

Yeah, as I said, many writers (pre movie) have fiddled with the extent/range of Matt's radar. I don't think that Matt should be able to "see" the fine details of a crushed roach, but if Chichester says "Well, Matt was really concentrating and focusing on that image, concentrating on the waves in that direction.", I'm fine with it.

I just don't like when writers say that Matt's radar is the sum of his senses (or that little Gazoo over his shoulder is telling him what's around him). That would be a prime example of how this writer doesn't really know our hero. It would show that he got his DD education while watching a terrible movie.

rgj


That's right Matty! There's a hot little number at five o'clock!

[jumonji]

[pbblair]

I say that it's always on. That's why it's such a problem is it acts up... it would be like if your ears were ringing--- you can't turn it off.

I do think that it can be concentrated, like sight. Just because my eyes are open does not mean that I'm focused on the correct thing. In fact, I may be daydreaming and distracted from that sense altogether. But when I focus, I can. In the case of the radar, though, it can be focused much better than regular old eyesight.

I DO NOT think that the radar should have trouble with faces, even if they're not in the line-of-sight. Radar "reflections" should be good enough for that, even if it's not quite as accurate as a direct "look" at the person. He would surely have trouble with skin and hair color, and therefore moles and whatnot, so he's miss out on characteristics that sighted people would use as "recognition shortcuts," so he's probably be more familiar with bone structures. From his perspective, there are probably more effective ways of identifying people than their faces anyway, and we've seen him mention those before. Sighted people use faces as a crutch--- blind people in general have numerous ways of telling who it is, depending on their familiarity with you.

I DO think that Matt can't "see" into sealed containers, since to my knowledge we've never seen him do that, even when it would have been handy. As I recall (I didn't do a search), rgj disagreed on that point when I raised it in defense that Matt wouldn't have known that Foggy wasn't in his coffin. I think he could probably focus on neighboring rooms and let his radar bounce around under the doors and whatnot, but he's get a pretty blurry image, in which case he'd be better of focusing his hearing just to see whose heartbeats are there. (Detecting the shape of a ninja-in-hiding would probably take way more effort.)

Have we ever seen DD sit on a rooftop and concentrate his radar on finding a SHAPE? I can recall him concentrating his hearing, but that's different. That would be a good guide for just how focused and how intense that sense can be.

[jumonji]

Thanks for chiming in! Interesting points. Here's what I think (long post again...), and let's see if we can get a nice debate going.

[harryhausen]

Hi, jumonji and co. I think this is a great thread. I’ve always been interested in Matt’s senses as they’re his, you know, super-power! Too often it seems that it’s just a collection of pseudo-scientific nonsense that allows writers to compensate for the blindness, more or less.

First, to answer the questions:

1. Yes, I think the radar sense is always active.
2. I like the previous poster’s (pbblair?) analogy about eyesight. Yes, it requires concentration and attention, perhaps on par with how one concentrates on one’s eyesight.
3. I would think that the radar would be much better at picking up dense objects. I think it would likely even be better at picking up stationary objects. Not to say that he has trouble with moving things (like the countless times he’s evaded projectiles of every sort), but I can imagine that a flagpole would be easier to distinguish than a flag flapping in the breeze (which I envision as having some sort of fuzziness to it).

I know that lots of people have done lots of different things with the senses. And I’ve not read them all. But here are my (purely subjective) feelings:

The coolest part of the radar is the 360 degree nature of it. Lots of artists draw DD turning his head toward sounds and whatnot (and I can understand some reasons why he might do that), but I liked the way Maleev would show him doing things – knocking out Sammy Silke or smashing the Owl’s camera – without even turning around, emphasizing that he “sees” in 360 degrees.

I’ve always imagined that the senses are a constant, bewildering flood of information (as seen in some of the depictions of Matt getting used to them at first, as well as some of the times it has gone haywire) that Matt controls with great effort. Like living with some intense pain. I imagine that he has to filter out all sorts of stuff all the time and that it requires exhausting mental control. To that end, I’ve always thought that his overall impression of the world is the sum of these miraculous senses. Like you said before, jumonji, the idea of ‘refrigerator’ could be represented by the radar outline thereof, the smell of the chemicals/machinery/food, the sounds of the machinery, the feeling of the moving air, etc. All inextricably tied together. In fact, Matt wouldn’t need to isolate which sense was providing what info unless one of them wasn’t working (as we’ve seen before). Maybe the same way we think, ‘It’s a nice day!’ without specifically cataloging the smell of flowers or the feeling of the sun or a balmy breeze? A collective impression. Note that I am not implying that his radar is the sum of his senses, just his overall impression of any object/situation.

Lastly (and I’ve mentioned this elsewhere), I’ve always imagined that Matt could improve his “filters” of the senses. Probably not the radar, but the other senses. The analogy I used was that of a musician improving his or her ear, beginning to make sense of dense and unusual music (like Webern/Ligeti/Nono, etc.) and hearing new beauty in the foreign tones as years pass. I imagine that Matt gets a flood of info and has been honing his ability to filter and process it. Not improvement to the organs of sense, but the opening of neural pathways as he gains ever more experience with these crazy senses. To that end, I think it would be reasonable for his use of the senses to grow and change, be refined, over time. Of course, that’s a slippery slope for writers.

Oh, and back on-topic, I have always imagined (in my own, non-isotope-affected brain – unless … wait, are drugs an isotope? The government sure trucks them through my neighborhood …) that he gets largely outlined impressions from the radar. A sense of depth, of course, from the various contours, but not details. No eyelashes, no sense of where the hairline begins, etc. His ability to really specifically recognize people would definitely come from the other senses. Of course, he could be great at picking up and identifying outlines that he has seen before. One of the reasons I like this approach is I think it makes it more intense to imagine a guy doing what DD does in a world of crazy silhouettes, more or less. Then add the other, intense details from the remaining senses, and it’s like he gets a picture of the world with the “middle” removed: he gets silhouettes and basic shapes, like a sighted person might get from a great distance, and then he gets the sort of olfactory and auditory details that a sighted person would get from being very close to something. It makes for a wild, claustrophobic image to me. And would make head-bustin’ in an alley just over-the-top intense!

Wow, that’s a long post.

[jumonji]

[rgj]

Just a reminder, Matt's "radar" is also "sonar" like.

Matt can "see" underwater. This was first stated in Lee's initial run.

I don't know if you know this, but Dolphins (who use different frequencies) can actually penetrate the sea floor (like a couple of feet deep) to scan for fish. Interestingly too, they can apparetnly see in X-ray fasion because of their sonar.

http://www.treasur.com/dolphins2.htm

http://www.dolphinencounters.com/sounds.htm

I don't hold fast to the notion that Matt has to be able to see though walls. But, I don't think, if he has sonar like abilities that it's out of the question. As for examples of Matt "seeing" though walls. Look, in the Eletkra Saga, when Elektra and her dad are held hostage, the artist depicts (and other artists have done similar) Matt "seeing" what is going on in the room. Now, sure, this could be just an "artist" depiction. Like, it's just an "idea" of what Matt "perceives." But, watch that sequence, as Matt enters the room he INSTANTANEOUSLY knows where to attack and he knows Elektra is on a chair.

As for Foggy's castket. Even if Matt's radar wouldn't work here (and who's to say it couldn't) I still think it was suspect that no one was allowed to see the body. C'mon, it wasn't like he was disfigured or anything. I think Bru just had to write that illogical part (as I mentioned back when it happened, and he tried to justify it, try as he might) to make his story work.

At the end of the day, I think it's cooler if Matt can see though walls.

By the way, the entry of DD in the omnibus also says that by simply turning his head slightly, Matt can help focus on an object. So, there, just a little more info.


Seriously, it would be cool if Bru read up on radar and sonar and expaned on the radar (as long as he sticks to the traditional emitted waves). Or just research all senses. Heck, it would be cool if Matt was shown to smell skin cancer on someone. Dogs can actaully do this. Seriously, the realm of the senses and radar could be so much fun with little research.

rgj

[jumonji]

I'm going to be brief here (should be getting to bed), but I'll just quickly comment.

[james castle]

1) Is the radar sense always active?

Sometimes. I think that during daylight hours his radar is always on. Given that it's based on waves it makes sense that light, which is sometimes a wave, would activate the radar. At night, I think the radar is only active when injustice is happening or when Matt thinks about injustice.

2) Does using it require active concentration/attention?

See above.

3) Is the radar sense better at picking out dense objects (like metals versus people)?

I doubt it's that black and white. I think that it probably picks up metal and stones very well. Then it sort of drops off in accuracy around the people/squishy sort of things. But then it's really good again for jello type substances.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Blind Alley]