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theunrealstudios
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dimetre wrote: |
"I don't feel he had effectively dealt with Karen's death, and for the five years Bendis had Daredevil performing one act after another that were wildly out of character, with the excuse that he was in grief. Miller did this before after Elektra died, but he didn't drag it out for five years. With Bendis having him unmask at Josie's and get married to Milla, it got pathetic." |
i think it got so crazy and unexpected. i don't think anyone had in comics reached that level of madness the extended into years of one bad event after another. we couldn't guess what what would happen. Peter Parker unmasks on camera in a calm press event < Matt Murdock smashes a F%^#ing car through a wall and has a breakdown mask less over the carcass of kingpin in front of a bunch of drunks; one word: EPIC. Milla's matrimony was just because he was love sick and and wanted to hold someone and be loved but he could also make sure they were safe in his home. I also believe it's because he never asked Karen to marry him and he felt nostalgic and full of regret (prob part of cause for the annulment on why Milla felt betrayed and used).
One thing you need to recognize is that the Elektra and Karen deaths are not separate events for separate characters, they both effected the same guy who yes has had time to heal but it's one scar after another. 3 girlfriends died and then the girl who has pulled on your heart strings from the beginning who you've betrayed her trust by lying to her about your dual life, cheated on her with a schizophrenic psychopath while you both were dating and then she finally dies in front of you for a billy club that was meant to hit you; you'd feel not only heart broken that the love of your life died but that she died so you could live causing serious survivors guilt (on top of the guilt he had for betraying her for years). i don't think Mack or Bendis could just shrug it off so easily in the writing (but Matt and Foggy barely talked or thought about Karen keep in mind; it just changed their attitudes as they both loved her).
| Dimetre wrote: |
"I do agree with you that Karen is an important figure now that she's dead. But can we just say now that he's done with his grief?"
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He's in denial now and is having a good time with optimism but in Bendis and Brubaker the grieving was done but Matt never healed and his actions and life were a product of that. Her death isn't relevant in these Waid stories but it's still there and eventually will come back to Matt. |
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theunrealstudios
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| the gael wrote: |
That's interesting.To be honest, I disagree with you on one thing. It's not Karen death that brought us the great Bendis / Brubaker run, but the outing. The outing is what turned Matt life into a living hell. Once your secret identity is blown up, every villian you have faced may attack you. Once Daredevil has a known adress, every supervillian may be at the door at any times. someone may target you and you will never know who shot you in the head. |
I completely agree on what you have to say about the outting but Karen comes to mind later on after "Out" and into "King of Hells Kitchen". Stiltman summed it up to Matt that even though people question the outting but people weren't attacking him because they were afraid of him. They didn't understand the declaration of Matt calling himself Kingpin as it was so shocking and the rumours spread like wildfire in that year of relentless night after night attacks on the underworld. Matt recognized that no more innocent people would die in the kitchen under his law (and this freaked out heroes, the FBI and crimianls alike). Karen was the (relatively) innocent person that showed Matt what happens if you let people like Typhoid Mary, Bullseye and Kingpin run wild but Milla made him remember her (remember Matt thinks of Karen when Bullseye attacks Milla and the wound opens fresh again).
| the gael wrote: |
It won't be nice for Smith fans, but what has her death achieve that a break up, for exemple, which would have had her character absent from the book, couldn't have achieved? |
because they broke up and got back together to the point it got boring. She leaves: California drug addict: they get back together. He cheats: she leaves: she comes back: they find love again. She's offered a job: she leaves: she comes back and they get back together. i mean come on a breakup is what this needed. it would jsut make fans go "okay now how long before they're back?" The status quo was so plain and that's the significance of this death is that it's final and the status quo for that relationship ends. thing is Matt recognizes that absolutely everything Bullseye did he was responsible for. He even said in hardcore that in his grieving he went looking for Bullseye while Lester was hiding.
| the gael wrote: |
You can't say that from the Gwen Stacy death, which had a great impact on Peter that a leaving Gwen wouldn't have had.
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if the love of my life died by my lifestyle i think it would be alot worse then if she just faded off into the world. Remember in Millers run Matt dated, forgot about Elektra and moved on (granted she was written to be a new character and her origin fit in the ambiguity of Lee's origin story but still). The character was written to have moved on after that breakup which could have been compared to a young Peter Parker breaking up with Gwen Stacy who could have broken up with him because of the death of her father (similar to the events with Matt and Elektra). Both suffered break ups and moved on but it's no where near a death that you are responsible and cannot change.
As for the quote about Bullseye and Daredevil in the church i think Bullseye would know that hes trying to get them out of harms way besides at that point it didn't matter; most of the citizens were dead, beaten (and a possibly raped nun). Matt couldn't predict Karen would be there and when he was shot it didn't matter he was in no position to do anything. With your argument (which is a good one) it's basically "fool me once (Elektras death) shame on you (bullseye) fool me twice (Karens death) shame on me" (Matt) then that can say that all super heroes with a "no kill moral code" are fools that ask for the villains to break out of prisons (or get Adamantium spines) and kill again. Take note that it was a surprise attack because the last time they had a conversation was when Bullseye was a quadriplegic and couldn't even talk let alone fight.
Sorry this is so long i actually enjoyed reading your post and Dimetres. |
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