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DD Book Club: Daredevil: Father
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the previous five issues comprised of a mystery. Who is Johnny Sockets? We found out at the end of issue #5. Now that this caper is winding down, it should do what the best mysteries do and explain a) how the murderer did it, b) why the murderer did it, and c) how the sleuth figured it out.

As james castle so eloquently pointed out, this series barely hangs together in any way. Let's look at the questions "how" and "why." I suppose she was angry at Sean for having what she thought was an affair, so she dressed in his clothes to frame him for these murders. But now that I've read the whole thing, it's still unclear why she took her victim's eyes. I'm assuming it's to mock Matt and her father for being blind? I'm also supposed to assume that she killed Matt's clients to bug Matt. So all of the victims, from the first to her last, were Matt's contacts. Why, then, did he not care about the Johnny Sockets murders until the latter part of this series?

For those of you who were unable to read Maggie's last words, because Marvel Unlimited had them too pixelated, allow me, an owner of every paper issue of this series, to reveal them to you in their pristine glory: "My father used to diddle me..." Very sensitive word choice by Quesada. I didn't know why that, out of everything that happened in this issue, horrified Matt the most. I'm assuming that 99% of readers didn't think this made Matt's original heroic act any less so. What message is Quesada trying to leave with his audience? "Be careful about whose life you save." That's an awful message.

But let me remind you of Quesada's original inspiration for this series....
Quote:
"Having lived in NYC during the Son of Sam killings, that was definitely an inspiration, but the entirety of the five issues was written at my father's bedside as he was passing away from emphysema," Quesada stated. "It was a very trying time and as he laid there in the hospital I just typed and typed, cried a bit, but mostly smiled as I was reliving our time together in my mind's eye all the while. From childhood to adult, I was flooded with memories and how instrumental my father was in where I was today. All these things found themselves into 'Father.'"

As I mentioned at the beginning of this study into Daredevil: Father, my own father passed away before issue #2 came out, and I thought I could work through some of my own grief as this series wore on.

What, on earth, does this series have to do with Matt's loss of his father? Does it shed any new light on his grief? So Maggie had a bad father. So Jack Murdock wasn't a saint. So NeRo's father wasn't a saint either. Jack once beat up Sean's father. And he wasn't a saint either. Hey, neither was mine. And maybe in writing this, Quesada came to terms that his wasn't either.

But what was his point? What message was his audience supposed to glean from all of this? I don't think any of us know.

And that's the saddest failure from this series -- that it came from such a personal place, but the end product was completely incomprehensible.

Joe Quesada is a gifted artist, and this confirms that he should have remained one.


Last edited by Dimetre on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:26 am; edited 3 times in total
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think something like Long Halloween or Dark Victory did a better job of balancing a serial killer plot with super hero action (though I still think the ending to Long Halloween was confusing and a bit muddled). Instead of the Santerians, maybe for action DD should have fought some criminals or super villains or something. Show Matt dealing with this serial killer problem as well as his normal crime fighting routine, show that life can be chaotic, other criminals are not going to wait their turn while Matt deals with serial killer. Let's face, the Santerians were never going to appear again after this mini, so I think if this series had have some action scenes, showing Matt dealing with villains and criminals during his normal routine or just don't have action scenes and focus solely on the serial killer plot.

Also maybe they should have just given the serial killer a different motive, I do think this twist sends a bad message, question every good deed you do, because of any unintended consequences it that may come of it. That idea goes against what super heroes are supposed to be about, I guess DD shouldn't save anyone because of any unintended consequences that may have. The fact that Maggie was willing to kill Matt's clients but not her own father makes no sense, her father ruined her life, not Matt.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1998
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:

For those of you who were unable to read Maggie's last words, because Marvel Unlimited had them too pixelated, allow me, an owner of every paper issue of this series, to reveal them to you in there pristine glory: "My father used to diddle me..."


Wait. Is this true? You're joking right? You have to be joking.
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Dimetre wrote:

For those of you who were unable to read Maggie's last words, because Marvel Unlimited had them too pixelated, allow me, an owner of every paper issue of this series, to reveal them to you in there pristine glory: "My father used to diddle me..."


Wait. Is this true? You're joking right? You have to be joking.
Nope.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope you're not joking or nope it's not true?
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Nope you're not joking or nope it's not true?
Yes, it's true. Nope, I'm not joking.
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Mike Murdock
Lowlife


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised they bothered to make that legible on any size. I figured it wasn't supposed to be.

Frankly, the story's title and theme of fatherhood only works in the sense that it features several people with fathers. That's about it. In exploring Matt's father, I can think of a half dozen regular Daredevil comics that do a better job.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1998
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
james castle wrote:
Nope you're not joking or nope it's not true?
Yes, it's true. Nope, I'm not joking.


Oh that's so bad. That's so, so, so bad. Oh that's so bad.

Also, maybe I'm missing something but how does Matt figure out that her father is the guy he saved? She's like "if it weren't for you none of this would ever have happened" and then like "he used to diddle me" (honestly, it's so bad) and then Matt is like "OH NO!". Why on earth would he connect any of that back to the first guy he saved? Even if he did, unbelieveably, make the leap that she blamed him because he saved someone who "diddled" (I'm just quoting. quoting!) her why would he think it was the first person he saved? He has literally saved dozens and dozens of people in Hell's Kitchen over the years.

IN FACT, it would be much more reasonable to assume it was someone he saved as Daredevil and not Matt Murdock. Because this makes sense:

1. Daredevil saves diddler.
2. Diddled person is mad at Daredevil but can't reach him.
3. Diddled person finds out Daredevil is Matt Murdock.
4. Diddled person goes after Matt Murdock.

This, however, does not:

1. Matt Murdock save diddler.
2. Diddled person is mad at Matt Murdock. So makes scrap book.
3. Diddled person finds out Matt Murdock is Daredevil.
4. Diddled person goes after Matt Murdock.

And, why does the old diddler with no legs freak out when Matt says he's Matt Murdock? Does the diddler know Matt Murdock saved him? He remembers that? Didn't he see the news that Matt Murdock was Daredevil? What is going on?

Finally, I just note that in order to make Maggie look scary and freakish he has her...take off her wig? And therefore look. Well. Like a cancer patient? So insulting.

MARVEL UNLIMITED REVIEW PART 2

Marvel Unlimited is kinda cool but actually very, very terrible because it robbed from me the ability to read "he used to diddle me" in real time. Had I read that in context and during the issue my brain would have literally exploded.
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Kuljit Mithra
Lowlife


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1494
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, I guess with all the delays this series had, I never read this thing properly. Now I have to read it again. Thanks for all this analysis guys, on this and the other series you've looked at.
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Naked Bat
Flying Blind


Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read it in tpb form a few eyars ago. I need to read it again, but I remember thinking it was a really dumb and badly written story, with a lot of plot points that lead nowhere. It also didn't say anything really interesting about Matt and his father.

We get it Joe, everyone has a father. Everyone has also a mother. Will I write a story about people having mother and call it mother though? No, because it's not interesting.

The art was different, but I liked it. but man, does Quesada need to never write a story again. He also needs to never give his opinion about what should happen to a character, because when he does, we have stuff like one more day.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1998
Location: Toronto, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the last two days Quesada has posted this to his tumblr:

Quote:

Daredevil: Father was a incredibly emotional and personal project for me on many levels with themes about the legacies we leave behind and those that are left for us. It also delved into unresolved issues that Matt thought he had with his own father which really turned out to be more about the unresolved issues he had with himself.

My own father had such a profound effect on my life that today every time I sit back and think about my own crazy career in comics and Marvel I can’t help but feel his presence throughout. I’ve rarely talked about Daredevil: Father since it’s publication simply because of the memories and emotions it stirs up, but I think tomorrow might be time to revisit some of it again.


And then the next day:

Quote:

When I set out to write Daredevil Father I was a nervous wreck. I had co written for myself with Jimmy Palmiotti when I was drawing Ash, I had written stories for others when I worked on Iron Man and NYX but I had never written something solo from start to finish that I was going to illustrate myself. I had my opening and ending, but I was struggling with a lot of self imposed pressure. Add to this the day to day pressures of being Editor In Chief and I started to think that maybe I had bitten off more than I could chew. That’s when things got worse, with my deadline looming I received a call that my dad had been hospitalized.

Arriving at the hospital in Miami I could see he was in bad shape. My dad had been hospitalized several times in the past for his emphysema but this was by far the worst and causing issues with his heart so the hospital wasn’t going to discharge him until they were sure he was going to be okay. That first day I sat by with him, he watched CNN while I typed on my computer. He asked what I was working on, I said, “A Daredevil story,” and his face lit up with the same joy he had when I sat at our kitchen table to try to draw Tippy. He patted the top of my head, nothing more needed to be said. I sat by his bedside for seven straight days and wrote Daredevil: Father from start to finish.


What is he talking about? Has he even read the series? Is he saying he sat beside his dying father and wrote the "diddle" line? What is the point of all this? He's delusional.
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1162
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Is he saying he sat beside his dying father and wrote the "diddle" line?

Wouldn't you like that to be true?

Did the book club spark Quesada's remembrances of Daredevil: Father?

As I said earlier, for this project, I went back to my individual issues of this series. The first issue had "1 of 5" written on the cover. When #2 came out a year or so later, it had "2 of 6" written on its cover. So the series grew in length by one issue in that time.

So that suggests that Quesada wrote either just the storybeats, or, at the very best, a very rough first draft in the seven days by his father's bedside. In both cases, I hope the word "diddle" was used.
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