Daredevil Message Board

JoeWithoutFear · Flying Blind Joined: 16 Oct 2013 Posts: 54

I'm fine with how Waid ended this. Was it great? No. Could it have gone a LOT worse knowing Waid? Yes. Hell, yes. =)

So, I gave it a 4. I was pleasantly surprised.

Waid, thanks for getting me into Daredevil. Now, get the hell out =P On to the next chapter!!

And yes, people in the mainstream media are definitely more in love with Waid and what he represents than any given character. As evidenced by a story on newsarama asking Steven DeKnight if Waid's run should be adapted into a future season of the Daredevil show. *rolls eyes*

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

I agree about the fact that most if not all the reviewers out there have the habit, when it comes to reviewing Daredevil stories, to focus too much on praising the authors and not on the actual content of the story, or how the characters are portrayed etc.

in this last issue Waid did something really awful, the way I see it, in using _again_ a gratuituous and unnecessary Born Again reference. The story could've been told without it and it would've had the same impact. Why he chose to have Kingpin say "you didn't have to sign it" is beyond my comprehension. it was just a "take that, readers, I know born again too". the kind of stuff bad writers like Kevin Smith abuse of and that make stories cringeworthy.
I'm sorry Waid, but your story had not the power of Born Again, the plot was pretentious, convoluted and nonsensical, and there was no way Kingpin could've ever know that Matt had thought that words after his house was blown up, nor any reason why he would think that was some sort of Daredevil signature on what had happened.

Everyone will remember Born Again. it was the story in which Matt got back on his feet after having had his identity revealed and his life destroyed by Kingpin.
Your story? After the fanboyish reviews of these days, how will it be remembered, IF it will be remembered?
"oh there was a time when .. uh... there was Waid writing DD and... the Owl was used by the Shroud... who was an obscure hero but also a villain and he was crazy and the owl was attached to wires and he... told people that Matt revealed their secrets.. and foggy had cancer... and then Matt asked help to Kingpin... but then stuff happened and everyone was saved"?

Blind Alley · Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:10 am Post subject:

It's been a long time since I posted here but as the Waid run is over, just wanted to drop a few words about it...

I didn't loathe it but did not enjoy it either. As some of you, I was surprised with the excellents reviews the book got... Maybe the total disaster that was Shadowland allowed to lower expectations on DD ? The art had its moments but nothing really stunning for me.

My main problem is not with Waid, though, it's with the global context of a character who now has a loooonng continuity. It can't work anymore. Back in the days, the fan could still pretend the Nocenti run followed Born Again. It was a different take but the character was more or less the same. Now there's too much stuff that's been piled over.

At least, I must thank Waid for leaving without a stupid cliffhanger. He leaves space for the next team to do whatever they want and it seems Soule and Garney will start a totally new direction...

Thayrone Ibsen · Flying Blind Joined: 13 Mar 2015 Posts: 59

I don't think anyone cares, but I wanted to make some kind of a point by saying: Francesco, man, you got IT ALL right! Great! Yeah, what the member above said is precisely what I think about the current (not anymoooooore) run, and I thought I should at least try to support that correct idea.

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

Thank you.

Nightwing2001 · Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:27 pm Post subject:

I just finished reading this and while I didn't love it, I didn't exactly hate it either. Matt and Foggys heart to heart at the end and Matt finally realizing his outing himself was a bad idea were somewhat good, and Matt disguising himself as Ikari and his (way too) short fight with the Kingpin was enjoyable as well. Other than that I don't know....

I really have to agree with many other posters though that the Kingpin saying "you shouldn't have signed it" was one of the most cringe worthy things ever, it almost spoiled the whole thing for me actually. I would expect some bad "self aware" writing like that from bad fan fiction or mediocre comic book movies but not from a seasoned comic book writer like Waid. He should know better, but then again he's done this before in the book so he obviously doesn't.

While I feel that Waid's portrayal of the Kingpin wasn't necessarily bad in these past few issues it just comes across like the only thing he even remotely knows about him comes from the Netflix Daredevil show! Maybe this is why he actually never used him in his run until now I don't know lol. From the way he wanted Matt to look at his "art collection" the whole line about how he only does things in private and in the shadows and even in the way he was drawn, it was all trying too hard to hit the readers over the head about Kingpin from the TV show and it showed. Whether this was editorial driven or that's all Waid knows of him who knows but it came across as ham fisted to me.

All in all the ending really felt rushed to me as well, I'm not sure if that's because Marvel told him to wrap it up before the end of Secret Wars or that's how he always planned it. I'm thinking its the former because it really did feel like he had to cram in a lot at once, especially Matt's all of the sudden sensing of Foggy being cancer free. I really have to agree with what Dimetre said about being disappointed that Waid never attempted to have Matt try to come to any grips with his mental problems that he was hiding from for so long. I'm thinking this is more about Marvel making him wrap up his run early and it just wasn't something he had time to address maybe?

So ya, the longest uninterrupted run on DD by Waid is over (I guess that's true because Miller, Nocenti and Bendis had some fill in writers a few times didn't they during their runs?) and the next writer definitely has their work cut out for them to clean up the mess he left behind. Everyone still knows his secret identity, he's hated by the public for putting out clients secrets and he lost his law practice AGAIN. Wow. You know after the Jack Battlin faked death thing, the Flying Blind fiasco, Matt going to jail, even after the possessed by a demon, leading the hand, and trying to take over New York thing, they were somehow able to sweep it all under the carpet and ignore it all without any kind of reboot to the character. Can they do it again this time? This time I'm really not sure how they could. Anyways his run is over now. It started out great and slowly went downhill somewhere past the half way point. I'm glad it's done and I'm hoping for better things in the next run.

I hope you can clean it all up for us hardcore DD fans. Good luck Chuck. Wink

Dayle88 · Playing to the Camera Joined: 25 Mar 2015 Posts: 140

Secret Wars Wink

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

Nightwing2001 · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject:

You know DD24 that possibility didn't even occur to me but I think you are probably dead right about it!

I was also thinking about what some of the others have said about all of this praise the critics have been giving to the Waid Daredevil stories while the long time fans on here are scratching their heads about why when we can all see that he's wrecking the character so badly. There seems to be certain comic writers that can put out used toilet paper for stories and people will praise it as genius, while other writers could never get away with that in a million years, go figure. Waid's definetly one who seems to get away with anything and the fans seem to love it out of blind devotion to him. They don't care if the characterization is true or not. I mean just imagine this alternate timeline thought, what if Andy Diggle had wrote "cheery" vol. 3 and 4 Daredevil and Mark Waid had actually wrote "Shadowland" ? How do you think the reactions to that would be? Wink

Dimetre · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject:

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

Nightwing2001 · Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:03 pm Post subject:

Where did I say that I don't understand how anyone could enjoy the Waid run? I actually loved this comic all the way up until about issue 30 of Vol. 3 and then after that I thought it all went downhill. The majority of people who post on here have been unhappy with Waid's run whether it was all of it or people like me who were unhappy with how it became later on. So I'm just saying what has already been said by others here. In no way did I think I was the official spokesman for all the "long time fans" like you've said. Lots of others on here have said the same things as me so I'm not sure why you decided to single me out. But then again you have done this to me in the past so I can't say I'm surprised. Anyways thanks for reminding me why I don't post here much anymore.

Oh ya BTW I didn't enjoy the Bendis run much either.

LightningandIce · Flying Blind Joined: 31 Jan 2014 Posts: 95

Read this today. It was okay, but kind of weak. Which sums up most of how I feel about Waid's run. I agree with those above who said this felt rushed. I think Marvel rushing Waid to finish up alongside Secret Wars is a pretty safe bet. This story started as Jubula Pride and The Shroud fighting over Owl. This was clearly planned out, as it ties right in with the first story arc of V4 and was heavily foreshadowed. Then Kingpin shows up, then Ikari, then suddenly the story is Matt vs. them while the other villains are pretty much forgotten. There are a lot of contrivances, forgotten details, and things that just don't mesh. I think the whole ending of this storyline was thrown together and shoe-horned in just to tie-up things up.

JoeWithoutFear · Flying Blind Joined: 16 Oct 2013 Posts: 54

It really is interesting how many people who don't like Waid really didn't have the last straw snapped until Volume 4. I have hardcovers for the entirety of Volume 3 displayed proudly on my shelf. I loved it. But V4? uggghhhhh...........

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.