Daredevil Message Board

Soriano · Flying Blind Joined: 23 Oct 2014 Posts: 5

I actually liked most of this run, but for:

-That thing with the Halloween monsters (Samnee said in that last interview that it was shoehorned for Halloween, maybe an editorial trick)
-That thing with Elektra acting as a chatty ex-girlfriend (seemingly also a editorial imposition: it read as it if was written for the Black Widow or something).
-That thing with Wakanda.
-That thing with the lilac murder.
I may be forgetting something, but this doesn't need to be exhaustive. I'm writing this just to show I have a criterion. You know, that classic rhetorical move ("I so, so and so, but..."). What's more: I didn't even know Waid before. I'm not a Waid fan. I didn't his Incorruptible. Heck, I'm a no-ones fan, now that I think about it.

From the last volume I really liked the first issues, the story with the Purple Children and the story with the Stuntmaster. I really didn't have a problem with Matt dressing as a red Spirit. What the hell? Everyone knows he is Matt Murdock anyway. Since the appearance of Fisk, the whole thing became a little nonsensical. Evidently, the whole thing was meant to last some issues longer, and it was rushed by Marvel to get a new number one at the end of Secret Wars. Evidently, Waid wouldn't give anything of this away and spoil his relation with Marvel, but I think it's the case. Maybe Waid wanted to use Fisk in some other story, but felt compelled to do it "now or never". It wasn't very wise.

I think it's not everyone's cup of tea, but I wanted to remark that technically, the run was very good. Please understand this not in the context of Daredevil, but somehow abstractly, and I think most of us will agree.

I don't know wheter it's a Samnee thing, but the whole thing was very well paced in terms of "sequential art". I would compare Samnee with Eisner and Miller in this regard. He has done his homework. Everything was cleverly done, with as much pannels as needed, and felt lively and dynamic. Most comic artist usually seem to just throw pannels at the reader, sometimes to good aesthetic results, but not in terms of readibility. Miller drawings were sometimes very badly proportioned, but the order, the size and the shape of the pannels, and what pannels actually showed did their magic. You know what I mean. In defense of Waid (as a writing professional) I should say that he contributed to this pacing by writing scenes with the ideal length. In such a constricted medium (20 pages) that is an art on its own. It worked very good as single issues.

As I hear some harsh things about this run, with words like "trash", "rubbish", "crap", and so on, I think someone is being too emotional about it. To be called that names, it should be worse that most of what Marvel is pulling nowadays, and I'm convinced it's not the case. I always think about Waid or Samnee coming down here and reading about this and oh my... It is very unpleasant. Please think about the creators, even if you don't like them. They are people. Speak against Marvel for keeping them on the book, but I think they have been trying to do their best...

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

you know what's also unpleasant? Reading a story of your favorite fictional character and being disappointed.

Soriano · Flying Blind Joined: 23 Oct 2014 Posts: 5

Yeah, that is also unpleasant. But, how does it affect the other fact? You know, being nice and all that. I don't see the relation here...

DesignDevil · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:36 am Post subject:

Soriano · Flying Blind Joined: 23 Oct 2014 Posts: 5

Yes, people are very vocal on both sides (it seems to be two sides to it, it is funny). Maybe I don't take it so seriously like so many of you do, and I have been reading Daredevil on a regular basis for 20 years now (crap, how old am I!). Daredevil is the only Marvel/DC thing that I read, I may say I am invested, but really, I don't think it's reason enough to risk and offend somebody.

When, sometimes, I didn't like the book I simply quit it, not even noticing (I still don't know what happened after the first new-age Colan issues and the end of volume I, or how playing to the camera ended, and I haven't bothered buying that Echo miniseries, not even for the sake of completism).

Some of Waid I liked, some of it I liked less (like the running gag "Foggy eats something awful"). But my point is, do even the ones of you who dislike it the most admit it has good technical points? (For all it's worth, even in the Shadowland arc there were well written and well paced scenes, and the art was good*)

(*An idea for a new discussion: Was Shadowland that bad by itself, or was it all about wasted potential?)

james castle · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:12 pm Post subject:

The thing I find so entertaining about the people who seem to hate Waid the most is that they all seemed to have joined this Board during his run. It's very strange. I don't doubt that they were DD fans before but so many seem to have joined just to freak out on Waid.

Anyway, any "long term" fan of DD knows that there are a lot more terrible DD comics than there are good ones (well, it's a close call anyway). Since I started collecting (when Nocenti was writing) there have been severe ups and downs. And that's coming from someone who liked Nocenti and Chichester (both of whom have their fair share of haters).

I haven't finished Waid's run yet but I feel like he has stood by tradition by having a run that had its highs but also had its lows. Maybe it's a meta-comment one the most inconsistent book in comics.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

james castle · Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:36 pm Post subject:

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

I was enjoying it in the beginning but when I figured out Bendis didn't know what he was doing I stopped enjoying it lol. I'd hardly call that a masterpiece lol.But I have to say I've never seen any Daredevil run with consistent great reviews like Waid's.I agree with you though. Smile

Ryu Murdock · Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject:

If you were given lemons...make a lemonade.

I have been reading DD since I was 9 and am now 34. I have read every issue...EVERY issue. And much like our beloved character...I learned to roll with the punches with regard to DD scribes. I either love (Lee, Miller, Nocenti, Bendis, Brubaker) or hate (Conway, Chichester, Kelly) their take on my favorite superhero. I did not like Diggle's run but their were bright moments there. Shadowland was an awesome idea executed badly, in my opinion. But rather than sulk and not read Daredevil. I brave forward knowing that the character I am reading is Daredevil. And I would not want to miss a thing when it comes to Daredevil.

Outside of Impulse, I was really not familiar with Waid's work. Almost everyone think it's a happy go lucky and not a dark run blah blah. But I do not see how desecrating a grave, cancer, rape of women, etc is light. I ilke the fact that the darkness in Waid's run is not in your face. It's subtle and sometimes more disturbing if you really think about it. You see, I don't just read Daredevil, I reallly read it. It takes me almost a day thinking about what happened each issue that comes out. I mince the the covers, internal art. This is the reason I guess why I tend to enjoy every Daredevil issue.

The pain of Vol.4 though was quite obvious. I think Waid was forced to make it different from his Vol.3 run just to say we are now on Vol.4 and he lost his supposed good stride from Vol.3. On the other hand, I hated Samnee's art on Vol.3 and really loved it on Vol.4, he got better and better.

All said, I just wish that Soule and Garney will do their best, and that would be enough for this long time Daredevil fan.

One thing I wish Marvel would change though is Daredevil's role in the whole of Marvel Universe. He was barely used in major crossovers. I have said it time and again on this website. He is Marvel's answer to Batman. Daredevil deserves the same sort of recognition Bats has. I used to love the fact DD is not a well known character, but I hope that will change. He is quite an awesome character to read. It's a crime that people be depraved of him.
_________________
"I'm only a DEVIL to those who are demonic."

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

When we call Waid's run happy-go-lucky we're speaking in terms of the overall tone of the book.You can almost pick out any comic on the shelf and find something depressing or somewhat serious at times.My problem with Waid is I didn't feel like I was reading about Matt Murdock,I felt like I was reading a parody of Mat Murdock and that is my issue with the whole series.I can tolerate bad Daredevil stories,but if I can't recognize the character I'm reading about any longer than I can't stick with it.

james castle · Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject:

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.