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Daredevil Message Board The Board Without Fear!
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #18? |
5 |
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23% |
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30% |
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15% |
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15% |
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15% |
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Total Votes : 13 |
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Acerbus Flying Blind
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 96 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Darkdevil wrote: | Francesco wrote: | I wonder if you guys would say the same things regarding the fact that there isn't a true version of the character if someone out of the blue decidd to write Batman as the campy batman of the forties. |
DC has been publishing the digital comic, Batman '66, which features the camp Adam West version of Batman for the past two years. From all indications, it's as popular as the modern Batman book. |
You're employing interesting arithmetic if you honestly believe Batman '66 is anywhere near as popular as the Batman book, proper.
Just check the sales.
Batman? #5.
Baman '66? #149. The lowest-selling of all Batman spin-off books published that month.
Same story for August.
I don't think it's a coincidence that - no matter how much (in my opinion, undeserved) praise is accrued by Waid's run from journalists or Eisner Award committees - this run has nevertheless quietly settled into being the lowest-selling Daredevil run since the '98 relaunch. Even Andy Diggle's woeful showing sold better. (And, unlike Waid, he didn't get two gimmicky #1 relaunches to artificially bolster flagging sales) It perfectly mirrors what's happening with Batman '66 at DC. Reviewers and the Press love it... the readers couldn't care less and just want to read a good comic that doesn't repeatedly bash them over the head with its campy premise. There's a disconnect. |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Acerbus wrote: | Darkdevil wrote: | Francesco wrote: | I wonder if you guys would say the same things regarding the fact that there isn't a true version of the character if someone out of the blue decidd to write Batman as the campy batman of the forties. |
DC has been publishing the digital comic, Batman '66, which features the camp Adam West version of Batman for the past two years. From all indications, it's as popular as the modern Batman book. |
You're employing interesting arithmetic if you honestly believe Batman '66 is anywhere near as popular as the Batman book, proper.
Just check the sales.
Batman? #5.
Baman '66? #149. The lowest-selling of all Batman spin-off books published that month.
Same story for August.
I don't think it's a coincidence that - no matter how much (in my opinion, undeserved) praise is accrued by Waid's run from journalists or Eisner Award committees - this run has nevertheless quietly settled into being the lowest-selling Daredevil run since the '98 relaunch. Even Andy Diggle's woeful showing sold better. (And, unlike Waid, he didn't get two gimmicky #1 relaunches to artificially bolster flagging sales) It perfectly mirrors what's happening with Batman '66 at DC. Reviewers and the Press love it... the readers couldn't care less and just want to read a good comic that doesn't repeatedly bash them over the head with its campy premise. There's a disconnect. |
But it's not just about what's popular (i.e. has the highest sales). I get that for you popular = good but that's not always the case.
And, yeah, the press is usually a little over enthusiastic in order to stay cozy with the publishers. But on the flip some some people (cough, cough) have built entire identities around being real angry (!) and hating things (!!) and maybe those people should be ignored too?
The problem is that there's this knee jerk reaction to declare Waid's run "The Best Ever" or "The Worst Ever" because that's what gets hits and views or whatever. No one is really going to read through a long retrospective or watch a weird youtube video with the title "Waid's Run Was Sort of Okay Basically". And the joke is that that's the truth. I think anyone who has actually read Waid's run (imagine that) would agree that it's not the greatest DD run ever but it's also not the worst. Of course that kinda of reasoned assessment has no place online where people are just jockeying for attention. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Dragonbat Playing to the Camera
Joined: 15 Jan 2014 Posts: 144 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I came to Daredevil in the middle of Waid's run and virtually no knowledge of the history beforehand. I'd read a reprint of Vol 1, #1, caught his cameo on Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, and seen another cameo in an 80s Marvel Comics Presents story about a 'fear eater' that was trying to make a meal of various heroes and died of starvation after leaping into the Man Without Fear.
I'm in the 'loved Volume 3 and found Volume 4 to be a mixed bag' camp. The thing is, after falling in love with Waid's DD, I went back and started buying the Vol 1 and 2 back issues on Comixology. Somewhere around the "Murdock Papers" arc, I found out about Marvel Unlimited. Although I came to the title with Waid, once I read what came before I also discovered that I enjoyed Miller (which, frankly shocked me; I was only familiar with his Batman stuff and, while I found DKR ok and enjoyed Batman Y1, after DKSA and ASBAR, I could not understand why so many people praised the man. Then I read Born Again and stamped that particular mystery 'solved'), Bendis, and Brubaker.
I'm mentioning this because even though I fell in love with Daredevil after reading Waid's take, it hasn't stopped me from also loving what came before and I doubt it'll preclude my loving what's likely to follow. I'm not sure I've got a 'definitive' version of Daredevil, but then, I'm not sure I've got a definitive version of any character out there who's been around long enough to have multiple writers. |
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Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
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Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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james castle wrote: | But it's not just about what's popular (i.e. has the highest sales). I get that for you popular = good but that's not always the case. |
Actually, with my example I wanted to say exactly that. Would people be okay with it, or would there be people giving voice to their disapproval? |
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Darkdevil Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 04 Apr 2009 Posts: 331 Location: The Bright, Sunny South
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Sales figures represent, at best, a shaky indication of a run's 'popularity' or quality. I can think of quite a few titles that may have higher sales numbers that get the same glowing praises and reviews yet from my POV, are rubbish. (Bendis' All-New X-Men comes immediately to mind).
But a simpler reason to discount such numbers is the underlying bias within those numbers. Judging by comments here, some of you, despite being adamant detractors of Waid's work, apparently still buy the book! How many other fans can we include in such a measure, who buy the book out of some sense of loyalty to the character in spite of hating the actual stories within that title? The numbers could be skewed thus any possible correlation to a run's 'popularity' is invalidated.
As for those glowing reviews, I think it's wise to consider the possibility that in order for these news sites to continue to receive exclusive previews, interviews, news and such from the Big Two, some reviews may have a slight swing to them. Not all of them of course, I've read some damning reviews on plenty of Big Two comics but still, something to consider.
Though I myself know of quite a number of fans, some of whom are long-time comic readers, who have either never read DD before or haven't read of DD in quite some time, who were drawn to the book either through those reviews or their love and appreciation of the previous work of the creator(s).
And they've loved it. They've enjoyed this fresh take on the character, mentioning how they've liked the change from the grim and dour Matt of yore. So have you considered the possibility that some of the elements of the character that you seem to hold in high regard may be preventing new readers from joining up? I mean, we're not exactly living in the heyday of grim' n' gritty anymore. |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Darkdevil wrote: | As for those glowing reviews, I think it's wise to consider the possibility that in order for these news sites to continue to receive exclusive previews, interviews, news and such from the Big Two, some reviews may have a slight swing to them. Not all of them of course, I've read some damning reviews on plenty of Big Two comics but still, something to consider. |
100%. I don't think mainstream review sites are completely corrupt or anything but I think it's in their best interest to stay positive if they can. So they tend to be super enthusiastic and really lean on the positives of a book. It's only when there's a major misfire that they really let loose and slam a book. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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kentuckydevil Flying Blind
Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 79
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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Harvey Awards.
Waid best writer for his work on Daredevil..
Hmmmmmm..guess I'm missing something...
Congratulations to Mark Waid.
ky |
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Dimetre Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 1366 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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kentuckydevil wrote: | Harvey Awards.
Waid best writer for his work on Daredevil..
Hmmmmmm..guess I'm missing something...
Congratulations to Mark Waid.
ky |
I find it strange that he won it this year. If he had picked it up last year or the year before I would understand, but, as much as I enjoyed his work in Volume 3, the overwhelming majority of this site's users seem to acknowledge the downturn in quality that came with Volume 4. I don't get why Waid won it this year.
Jason Aaron is usually excellent, but he was nominated for Southern Bastards which I haven't read. The writer of Ms. Marvel was nominated, but I haven't been reading that, even though I've heard good things. I have been faithfully reading Saga, and I think that this year Brian K. Vaughan should have picked up the award for Best Writer instead of Mark Waid. |
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Darkdevil Humanity's Fathom
Joined: 04 Apr 2009 Posts: 331 Location: The Bright, Sunny South
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Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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On top of his Harvey win, the team of Waid & Samnee are set to take on a new solo Black Widow series. |
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