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Mike Murdock
Lowlife


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Where do I go from here? Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

I'm a Daredevil fan who got excited by the news of the Netflix program and then decided to start reading the comics from scratch (although I'm a fan of comicbook heroes, Daredevil is the first comicbook I've actually read). Since February, I've read all of Frank Miller's run, about half of Denny O'Neil's run, most of Ann Nocenti's run, and some of D.G. Chichester's run (Last Rites with Fall from Grace in the mail right now).*

My eventual goal is to catch up. Because of that, Guardian Devil is in the mail. But, if you notice, I didn't start at the beginning (I started with Miller as an artist just before his run as a writer). I also skipped quite a bit along the way. So I'm looking for advice. Should I read from the beginning now or go forward? Is there anything else in D.G. Chichester's run worthwhile? What about Karl Kesel or Joe Kelly? I have no problem with individual issues, but I don't have an unlimited amount of money to spend, either.

What is, if not essential, important to read? What stories would I get a lot of enjoyment out of or would be disappointed to miss? Even going forward, what in Volume 2 is less than important to have? Thanks in advance for all your help.

* For those who want a complete list I've read:
146-148 (Shooter)
157 (McKenzie)
158-167 (McKenzie/Miller)
168-191 (Miller)
195, 202, 204-206, 210-222, 225 (O'Neil)
226 (O'Neil/Miller)
227-233 (Fall from Grace)
236, 239-240, 242-245, 248-252, 254-257, 259-263, 265-291 (Nocenti)
297-300 (Last Rites)
304
With Fall from Grace and Tree of Knowledge on the way.
ETA: I also read Frank Miller's The Man Without Fear story and Brian Michael Bendis's Hardcore story. I wonder Hardcore may have needed a little more context to be appreciated, though.
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Nightwing2001
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Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 94
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds to me like you've hit all of the sweet spots mostly for good stuff to read in vol. 1.

I would recommend filling in some of the holes you don't have like in the O'Neil and Nocenti issues and in getting some more of the good Chichester stories like 292 to 296 and 380.

After 300 though there isn't too much that stands out that is great, just a lot of ok stuff and some downright lame stuff too. But I would still recommend issues #343 to 350 by JM DeMatteis. They we're pretty good.

As for Vol. 2 it was not my favourite although the Ed Brubaker stuff was ok, at least it was at first. If you do read those you should probably read the Bendis stuff before it cause a lot of plot carries over from one to the other. "Parts of a Hole" issues #9 to 15 I think? we're ok as well.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if DeMatteis's stories were too similar the end of Nocenti's run (Daredevil going crazy, adopting alter egos, and all that). It is a resolution of Daredevil getting that other suit, though.

I have no idea why, but Parts of a Hole is one of my favorite titles.

I'm worried about Brian Michael Bendis's run. I didn't really like Hardcore. But I also read it way too early without any context so I'm hoping I'll appreciate it more the second time through after reading the stories that led up to it.
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there, you've read alot of awesome runs to gt enough of the overall DD story from v.1 so I would recommend diving into the best parts of v.2.

Bendis/Maleev is a MUST. Once you read it after Guardian Devil, I would hope you enjoy it a whole lot more. In fact, the events of GD feed right into both Bendis' and Brubaker's runs.

I would also highly recommend the mini-series Redemption. One of my personal favorites and probably one of the most adult DD titles out there. Watching Matt go up against a corrupt God fearing town is a joy to read. Plus it's a self contained story, so no other reading is really required.
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jriddle
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
I have no idea why, but Parts of a Hole is one of my favorite titles.


It's an excellent storyline too.

Mike Murdock wrote:
I'm worried about Brian Michael Bendis's run. I didn't really like Hardcore. But I also read it way too early without any context so I'm hoping I'll appreciate it more the second time through after reading the stories that led up to it.


Don't fear Bendis--he's easily the second-greatest writer DD has ever had (behind only Miller). But before you get to him, you definitely should read the stuff that precedes it in vol. 2.The book had declined fairly badly by the end of vol. 1, but it improves radically with 2. Of the pre-Bendis vol. 2 stuff, you can skip the brief Bob Gale run--it's so poor it wasn't even included in the oversize collections--but all of the rest is choice. Bendis is a must, and after him, Brubaker puts in a rock-solid run (I still haven't read all of it though).

After that, things collapse. Pretty much everyone agrees Andy Diggle's run was a complete disaster. I haven't read it, but the idea of demon-possessed DD is enough to keep me away unless I one day come across it for free and am just really, really bored. And Waid, who took over after that, is as bad as Daredevil has ever been within the timeframe you're covering. Waid's DD isn't DD at all, it's more like an extended effort by a talentless hack to mockingly defecate on everything that made the character and the book special. I've tried to read some of it in recent months; it's just awful, and, as it's a virtual certainty it will be erased in the future, can be safely ignored (if he would just get off the damn book).
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LightningandIce
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Joined: 31 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As people have been saying, Parts of Hole is golden. You definitely want to read that. It's one of my personal favorite stories in the DD canon. IMHO it's on par with Miller.

You may also want to look into the Yellow mini-series. It's a retelling of the first few issues of V. 1, with a framing device that ties into Guardian Devil and a heavy focus on Matt's relationship with Karen. It's an excellent take on DD's early days and is a very entertaining story in its own right. I would go so far as to say it's in my top three stories, alongside the aforementioned Parts of a Hole and the Miller stuff.
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jriddle
Playing to the Camera


Joined: 19 May 2011
Posts: 128

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LightningandIce wrote:
As people have been saying, Parts of Hole is golden. You definitely want to read that. It's one of my personal favorite stories in the DD canon. IMHO it's on par with Miller.


Totally agree. A great and criminally underappreciated piece of work.

LightningandIce wrote:
You may also want to look into the Yellow mini-series. It's a retelling of the first few issues of V. 1, with a framing device that ties into Guardian Devil and a heavy focus on Matt's relationship with Karen. It's an excellent take on DD's early days and is a very entertaining story in its own right. I would go so far as to say it's in my top three stories, alongside the aforementioned Parts of a Hole and the Miller stuff.


I wouldn't go that far, but it's another one that's definitely well worth a look. It's like DD's earliest adventures as a memory, shown through the eyes of the more mature, older DD then current (though not presently current).

I'd also throw in a good word for "Daredevil: Redemption," which seems to have come and gone without much notice but is another gem.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm torn with Bob Gale. Yes, I know everyone says it's terrible. However, I am a lawyer so the idea of reading stories focused around the law intrigues me. Of course, that might infuriate me instead.

I figured Shadowland was a skip. In addition to poor reviews, it seems to be part of a much larger story I'm not really invested in getting. Does Redemption make sense (and is it worth it) without reading Shadowland, though?
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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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Nightwing2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot about Redemption, I love that mini series too. If you're a lawyer you will like it too because Matt does a lot of lawyering in it (hehe is that a real word?) It is a self contained story, it has nothing to do with Shadowland and came out years before it so don't worry.

I also want to recommend the mini series Daredevil Punisher Means and Ends. It is a great crime story with lots of action.
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Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge


Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can read Redemption even without any prior experience of reading DD as it's not connected to any other stories. If you like the law element, then this series is certainly a must read. It's like a re-imagining of the West Memphis Three case, with certain facts of the real investigation being directly transferred to the comic book. Very grounded, adult story.

And I agree, Yellow is pretty awesome too. It needs to be read after GD however. Loeb and Sale are an excellent team and it's very different from the work they did on Batman.

If you still don't like Bendis' run, I would give Brubaker's a shot. It spins directly out of the Bendis story but it's too good to disregard altogether. He takes Matt out of his comfort zone and sends him on around the world!
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Bullseye11
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Joined: 05 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I can add that people haven't said is maybe read some Mike Murdock issues since that's you're name. They're funny in rediculousness. If you run out of things to read maybe try some earlier issues but they're really not that necassary. You might find some gems though.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if I go back to the Silver Age, Marvel has wonderfully chosen to sell them in omnibus collections that are about 25 issues each (and I think the price was only something like $10 plus shipping and handling). If I want to collect everything, I certainly will. But if I'm budgeting myself at $30 a month or so, do I want to delay Brubaker, etc. in order to get those issues.

I chose Mike Murdock in part because of the absurdity of the whole thing (although I've seen some good defenses of the character at least in the sense of figuring out Matt's personality). I've heard everyone say that Stan Lee's issues are, to put it mildly, not good. But there are some hidden gems in there that I'll eventually want to read. But I also assume modern Daredevil has no interest in whether you've read them. I don't think I've seen anything starting with Miller or beyond that even referenced anything done before Joe Shooter.
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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Bullseye11
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, read Brubaker first. And you're right, the majority of the Stan Lee is stuff is pretty bad. I delight Init's terribleness but I'm sure a large amount of people can't stomach it. Anyway, I'm just saying if you're a really hard core DD fan and have nothing else to read, check it out. If you're on a budget of $30 a month there are much better things you can get, though.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1435

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I'm reading Fall From Grace right now and I have to say:

What a bunch of self-indulgent masturbation (granted, most masturbation is self-indulgent). Don't get me wrong, it's not bad. I'm enjoying it for what it's worth, but I've barely started and I can already see it going off the rails.* There's just way too many things going on and every little thing is a big buildup to something else. There's never just an attempt to enjoy the moment and experience the story. Granted, that may change, I've only gone through the prologue and half of part one. Things may change.

* Given the subway part of the story, I suppose I should add "no pun intended." However, I obviously not only deliberately left in the unintentional pun but I'm now calling attention to it, which might be worse.

ETA: And now Venom is somehow involved? Good Lord!
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Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
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beneverett
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I should say right off the bat that I've basically posted this same message in the forums at comicvine, but I felt they would be appropriate here too -even though I'm over a month late in joining this discussion.)

I really want to come out here and champion the current run in particular. It's been getting a lot of hate on the boards (some of it boarding on absurd in my opinion), but I've been reading DD for over a decade now- and have since gone back and "filled in the blanks" via TPB's and reprints -and I think Waid's run is one of the best that the book has had in it's 50+ years.

I can understand why it could be a bit off-putting for some readers, but that's a risk inherent in any long-running serialized medium like this. And while I don't share the same opinion, I understand and respect their subjective responses.

I don't know if you have checked out any of Waid's run as of yet, but I certainly hope you give it a chance.
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