Daredevil Message Board

[Dayle88]

I always thought all the kids was a little inside joke that Matt had slept with all these women and never came close to having a kid. Made me laugh regardless.

[Mike Murdock]

This may be a first. An issue where I really have nothing to say. Things happened, I guess? Not really? Ben's continuing to talk to people and we meet Milla and then Elektra at the end.

I thought the exploration of whether Matt had a death wish was interesting, except I don't think it was really explored. It was just stated matter of factly. If I were to weigh in on the subject, I would say he generally did not. Daredevil was escapism and he was reckless, but I don't think he wished to die. In fact, I'd argue it was quite the opposite. I think, generally, he was sure enough of himself that he thought he was invulnerable. That doesn't mean Milla wouldn't have seen it that way, but I'm also not sure if it matters how Milla would have viewed it unless they want to explore this more.

Obviously, the implication is Milla's kid, Franklin, is Matt's kid. I wonder if that's just a little backstory for the time in between or truly plot relevant. I assume that was him at the end with Elektra, so I'm guessing he'll come up again.

Three Stars. It really should be two and a half. There's just nothing I actively disliked, so it was hard to go lower. But I feel I could have skipped the issue and not minded it in the slightest.

ETA: Reading other comments - I suppose they're probably different kids (and everyone has a little Matt). Second, I didn't catch that Sam Wilson was President. I like that. Third, I did notice that Milla seemed awfully precise with hitting Ben for a blind woman. Maybe Matt just taught her to hone her skills, who knows?
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Darkdevil]

Grudgingly I admit that this second issue was better than the first. With the problems of how Matt is killed out of the way, we can focus on why he was killed as Ben searches for the meaning of the word 'Mapone'.

He searches for Natasha only to learn that she has died. He talks to Milla only to be slapped and he stumbles across Elektra after Matt's funeral only to be threatened by her.

And we still have no clues whatsoever as to what 'Mapone' may mean or imply.

While the dialogue was decent and wonderfully free of Bendis' repetitiveness, the decompression was horrible. Did we really need that many panels of Ben simply walking to the alley behind the bar?

The timeline of this story is still wonky. Avengers are everywhere, the Bugle is still folding, Fury 'looks over 100 years old' yet again Ben, JJJ, Elektra, and I would guess even Milla look remarkably the same.

If SHIELD is shut down,then who is operating all those Helicarriers flying over Manhattan?

As for the kids, I thought one rumor was that Bendis believed Matt to be something of a horn dog and player with women. I've never subscribed to that ideal. Sure, Matt has had numerous relationships with various women over the years but they've all been deep emotional relationships rather than mere flings which is what Bendis' opinion seems to imply. So maybe all these illegitimate kids was Bendis' *wink wink* to that ideal. (For yes, I too thought the kid playing soccer was Elektra's son).

I can't think of any real reason for why Foggy would never attend Matt's funeral.

Did Bendis just reference something outside of his own DD run? From Miller no less? What?!

Overall an okay issue. Even though we don't know anymore about the main mystery of this story at this issue's end than we did at the beginning (decompression at it's best) I'll give it Three stars. Ben's narration and thoughts continue to salvage this story.

[Mike Murdock]

^ Bendis will reference Frank Miller. He also referenced Guardian Devil when it came to the death of Karen. He doesn't reference anything outside of that when it comes to DD continuity, though.

Daredevil End of Days #3



Due 4/24
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[Dimetre]

This issue is more of the same. Ben finishes talking to Elektra, and he can't seem to tell the difference between how a pointy sai and a woman's finger feels. And yes, there is no doubt that the soccer boy is her son, and his name is Matthew.

Then Ben goes to a film studio where Mary Walker is acting. Given her mental and criminal history, it's amazing she's able to sustain a career. And she looks nothing like Mary Walker. Her hair is red. I suppose hair dye is a thing, but still. She denies knowing what Mapone means, and she has two red-haired sons. They were born to Typhoid apparently, not Mary.

Then Ben goes to a university campus where Maya Lopez is teaching a class. She hasn't seen Matt in five years and has given up her Echo identity. This is my favourite part of the issue, because either Mack takes over on art for the flashback, or Sienkiewicz does an amazing Mack impression. I have fond memories of Parts of a Hole, and this took me right back there. But she doesn't seem to know what Mapone means either.

The issue ends with an image of Daredevil running over a rooftop, but is that just to make sure we have the requisite number of Daredevil drawings per issue? Is it to draw a parallel between Ben and Daredevil? I, for sure, don't know.

Issue three seems to be a repeat of issue two. Is this how the series is going to be for five more issues -- Ben visiting Daredevil's supporting cast, who have produced red-haired offspring and no one knowing what Mapone means? Can no editor turn down a story pitch from Bendis?

Anyway, it's pathetic that this so closely resembled #2, but I love the Echo art. Three out of five.

[Mike Murdock]

Shout out to the cover since I know that's the creative team as cops. Regardless of what I'll think about the rest of the story, I do like the inside joke. Plus, I like the look on David Mack's face. There's also a reference to a Mr. Brubaker.

The story opens with Elektra being defiantly cryptic and telling Ben to stay away. It's obviously a callback to their first encounter. If there's anyone that can put Ben Urich off a story, it's Elektra (or maybe that giant nurse, but I think she's dead). Presumably Matt was with her at some point during the gap if that's Matt's kid, but who knows? Apparently, Matt was also with Mary Walker, which bothers me. It's not that he wouldn't have genuine feelings for her, but he was so harmful to so many people (including her) during his affair with her. I feel this sort of is glossed over. The suggestion that Matt had kids with the Typhoid Mary half is even more disturbing but, to be fair, it's left ambiguous (and Mary's hair is pretty red here too).

I have to say Maya Lopez is a welcome surprise (is this before or after Bendis killed her off? I'm guessing after since it talks about her being killed and resurrected by the Hand). Of course, there's a very quick art error with Ben looking away and talking to her (it happens literally right after they point out that she's deaf and can't hear him). I like David Mack drawing here.

I think the big takeaway is the idea of the superhero life destroying Matt. The scene with Maya sent that home. Frankly, it was the best scene in the issue. I'm not sure if any of the others contributed anything (but I'll leave open the possibility that I am wrong). It offers something to chew on, but it came so late after so little. Better than last time, but Three Stars.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[james castle]

End of Days Part 3: Is This English?

Plot!
1. Daredevil named himself the new Kingpin of Hell’s Kitchen.

2. Kingpin came back to New York and Daredevil beat him to death in public.

3. Daredevil and Matt Murdock disappear and no one knows where he went!

4. Years later. Daredevil and Bullseye fight. Bullseye gains the upperhand and right before he kills Daredevil, Daredevil says “Mapone�. Bullseye appears shocked by this word.

5. Ben Urich, after being pressed by J. Jonah Jamison, decides to do some investigating and finds one dude who tells him that Matt said “Mapone� right before he died.

6. Ben has dinner with his 16 year old son (?) Timmy.

8. Ben decides to write a story and a Daredevily person appears on the roof tops!

9. Ben goes looking for Black Widow but finds an old Nick Fury instead. Fury tells Ben that Black Widow died four years ago and that he has no idea what “Mapone� means.

10. Ben then goes to visit Milla and asks if she knows what “Mapone� means. She doesn’t.

11. Ben goes to Matt’s funeral and Elektra and tails her to her son’s soccer game. He asks her if she knows what “Mapone� means to which she replies “Is that English?�. Good question.

12. Ben goes to see Typhoid Mary who is just Mary Walker now. Guess what? She has two redheaded kids. Two. Even better they’re Typhoid Mary’s kids apparently. So Matt fathered some illegitimate kids with a mentally ill woman. That’s nice.

13. Ben goes to see Echo. She says she saw Matt last five years ago when he was beat up by The Hood and had lost an eye. He was still Daredevil but it inspired her to stop being Echo (after another year). Ben asks her if she knows what “Mapone� means and her incredibly reasonable answer is “Is that a word?�. At least she doesn’t have any Matt babies. OH WAIT! Check out the picture on her desk! It’s a redhead kid and it’s addressed to “mom�. So there you go. A fifth. FIFTH redheaded son. FIFTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

14. Ben gets a call and learns that they’ve found Bullseye.

15. The guy dressed as Daredevil makes another appearance and is running along the roof of University. I assume he was following Ben (?).

Ben(dis)’s Mysteries!
Why did Matt kill the Kingpin? Nothing.
Why did Matt leave New York? Because he killed the Kingpin (?).
Where did he go? Nothing.
How did Bullseye find him? Nothing.
And what did Matt say with his dying breath? Mapone.
What did it mean? Nick Fury, Milla, Elektra, Mary and Echo don’t know and neither do we.
Who’s the guy in the Daredevil suit? Who knows.

Fun Facts!
Illegitimate Kids Shown This Issue: 4 (Elektra’s tweenish kid, Mary’s twins and Echo’s son).
Running Illegitimate Kid Count: 5.
Did What Happens on the Cover Happen: No. But we’re all agreed that that’s supposed to be Bendis on the left right? The dead Kingpin looked kinda like Bendis on #2’s cover but this is almost 100% for sure some wanky inside joke.
Cliff Hanger: Someone in a Daredevil suit is running on a rooftop (which is kinda different than someone in a Daredevil suit standing on a rooftop like in issue #1).

Whose Time is it Anyways?
Note: Okay, this is getting us nowhere. Let’s just start to nail down things that we’ve actually been given definitive years for.

So Matt was still Daredevil and lost an eye five years ago. Which is before he disappeared after killing the Kingpin.
Natasha died four years ago.
Echo stopped being Echo four years ago.

So at most we’re only 5 years since Matt disappeared. Which is less than the decade I sort of thought before. But whatever.

Now THAT is Decompression!
An issue in which Ben visits three women and asks them the same question and gets the same “I dunno� answer from each of them speaks for itself.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dayle88]

Have you ever enjoyed anything in your life?

[james castle]

[Mike Murdock]

I'm not sure Daredevil declaring himself King of Hell's Kitchen should count as a plot point any more than Elektra shoves a Sai in Ben Urich's back counts. It was just a reference to a previous story.

I don't think I'm over the possible children between Typhoid Mary and Matt Murdock. I was uncomfortable enough in Last Rites, but this implies it happened again - it's sex with a woman who isn't in control of her body. It's just troubling all around.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[james castle]

The only reason I put the Kingpin of Hell'ss Kitchen thing in there is because it kinda leads to Fisk's death? I genuinely forget if we ever get an answer for why Matt killed Fisk but it's possible that the only answer we ever get is "because he came back" which is a direct result of the Kingpin of Hell's kitchen stuff.

Also, super agree with the Typhoid Mary stuff. I don't think I was that creeped out when Last Rites came out but looking back on it that was super creepy.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Dayle88]

Doesn't Kingpin coming back come from Brubaker's run with the Vanessa deal where he gives up his citizenship in exchange for Matt getting him out of prison?

After Matt kills Fisk he turns to the crowd and says 'You don't understand, I tried everything else.'

I guess he kills him to put a stop to the fighting and people dying that has gone on for years.

I don't think this book is meant to be a conventional Daredevil, I see it as the result of a normal guy fighting evil for all these years and the toll it ultimately takes. It seems like the beginning of the spiral of a guy who is inevitably losing his edge. Think of an all time great boxer getting to his mid-40s still fighting in tiny clubs and getting hurt. The risks and bad decisions they make is a direct result of their body giving up before their mind and doing things through sheer force of will in the hope that their body will keep up again.

If a villain loses they go to prison, if Matt loses once he dies.

[james castle]

[Darkdevil]

Okay,this is getting ridiculous. 5 illegitimate kids with four different women. At this point, I'm shocked that when Fury approached Ben, he didn't have SHIELD Agent Matthew Romanov in tow so he could explain to Ben if his mom had ever heard the word 'Mapone'.

Plus, I'm not a doctor nor a geneticist but I seem to remember hearing in some biology class that the red-head or ginger-hair gene is recessive. But four women of differing heritages all have red-headed kids by the same father. Damn Matt, not only are you a player but you also have kick-ass dominant genes!

Nothing happened here. Maya and Mary may have asked some intelligent questions but we're no closer to any clues whatsoever as to what this supposed word means.

The dialogue suffers some in this issue. For example, while sticking her powerful deadly finger in the small of Ben's back, Elektra says, "The end? The end was what the end was always about. Violence." Who speaks like that?

The scenes with Mary were very disturbing. I can somewhat justify Matt's actions with her in Last Rites (see book club reviews) but the implication here is that he went back to her at some later point. That is creepy, something I don't think Matt would do. The shot of Mary telling Ben that the kids are 'hers' while crying, very moving and sad. (Does that imply that she doesn't even remember giving birth to them? Wow.)

Maya's scenes were good, especially with Mack at the helm for them. So far, she's been the only one that Ben has approached to willingly talk to him about any encounters/relationships with Matt. Hearing that Matt lost an eye is quite surprising but Bendis missed out on giving readers a little payoff with this. I went back to #1 to the fight with Bullseye and there's little indication of such an injury to Matt. This acknowledgement from Maya would have been stronger if we had possibly known about this earlier.

I'd have to give this issue two stars. The plot wasn't progressed at all while all the illegitimate kids running around is pathetic. Can Bullseye pull us out of this funk? We'll soon see.

[james castle]