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DD Book Club - Out
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
It's been several years since I read this issue, but I'm guessing most of us are familiar with how this story goes. Because those of us in the Book Club have been re-reading various stories, I am finding some things strange.

When Matt wakes up aware of the media camped out in front of his home, he thinks to himself, "My life is over." That seems very melodramatic to me, considering the reference to the events in "Playing To The Camera" later this same issue. It turns out that Bendis, along with editor Stuart Moore, were aware of that story, which puzzles me that they chose to run with this story so soon after. Matt even says, "Oh Foggy... How could this have happened?" He's a grown man and a superhero. We all know that this wasn't his first secret identity crisis. I don't know why Bendis and company are treating this as such a life-shattering event. Sure, it sucks, but Foggy and Matt are acting like someone died.

Foggy is acting more adult than Matt here. He actually suggests a strategy of denial. I guess, based on his assessment regarding "Playing To The Camera," that's their only option. However, the Globe did actually print the truth, but, I guess we'll deal more with that later.

The two FBI agents have very similar speech patterns in this issue, and Alex Maleev even draws them similarly. That caused confusion for me this issue.

The two pages devoted to Henry and Sherry at seven in the morning told us precious little about their relationship. They seem to be living together, but don't see each other very often. Does she not trust him? Maybe he cheated on her in the past? They seem to have money problems. If they do, how bad is it? Is she going to leave him? We don't know, but it's suggested. But that was two pages to find out as little as we did. Henry seemed to conclude that he needed money. How much? We don't know. Later on we don't find out how much money the Globe offered for the story.

You'd think someone as intelligent as Black Widow would know better than to show up in costume landing on the rooftop given Matt's media problems. Why wouldn't she show up in plain clothes? It's not good for a story when the characters in it act dumb. Natasha's smarter than that, but Bendis needed Henry's suspicions confirmed.

Foggy was cool enough in that last exchange, but there some awkward dialogue moments. Foggy asks Matt, "So, what are you going to do?" Matt wails back, "Oh Foggy, no!" That reaction didn't make sense to me, or to Foggy. He asks, "What?" "This-- this is my cross to--" Matt replies. It still didn't make sense to me. It would have made more sense if Foggy had asked, "So, what are we going to do about it?" But he didn't. Foggy said "you." Also, Foggy has to realize that the Globe printed the truth, so it seems overly vindictive to talk about suing "everyone in sight until their heads spin off the top of their bodies. We're going to own that dishrag of a paper." He argues that what they printed wasn't newsworthy, but I can honestly see how other people within the universe would disagree, especially because of the events in "Playing To The Camera." Foggy positions the Globe to be the villain here, but I think that's unfair

All of Bendis' bad habits about which I regularly complain are present here: multiple pages used for a scene that could easily fit on one. I absolutely hate it when he has twenty or so speech bubbles crowding a panel saying the same thing, as he does here in the media scrum. It's so annoying, and less bubbles could have accomplished the same thing.

And the cliffhanger, with Foggy recommending that Matt retire the Daredevil identity is weak. First of all, none of us think that Matt would actually do that. Secondly, Foggy's speech leading up to that line is divided up among five panels on that final page. In the third last panel, he actually says, "A big frickin' neon sign. And it says it's time to just put the costume away once and for all." So when we get to the final line two panels later, there is no impact. It's weak.

I have read worse from Bendis and Maleev, but this is pretty annoying. I give this issue 2.5 out of 5.


I am going to be honest, I think this the most dull arc of the Bendis era, nothing happens, despite this story having on impact on the DD titles till very recently.

This arc has no cohesive narrative, I am going to spoilers territory, but not by much and who cares at this point.

Nothing important happens this issue and you can streamline this issue with the next and lose nothing.

I feel like there is a real wasted opportunity here, imagine scenes where heroes and a collection of DD's villains react to this news. This story clearly is not supposed to be a typical hero vs. villain story, but you could have made a real character piece by showing the impact from this reveal at all angles. Instead this story meanders.

I give this 2 and a half stars.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #34 - I Didn't Know You Knew



Quote:
His life is in shambles — now Daredevil has to pick up the pieces

In this startling issue, Matt Murdock must come to terms with an anger that threatens to consume him! Can his friends Ben Urich and Peter Parker help? Find out as the Bendis/Maleev era steamrolls on!


It took a lot to track down the original solicit for that one!

Due 12/3
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
His life is in shambles — now Daredevil has to pick up the pieces

In this startling issue, Matt Murdock must come to terms with an anger that threatens to consume him! Can his friends Ben Urich and Peter Parker help? Find out as the Bendis/Maleev era steamrolls on!

This issue is supposed to be startling? This action is supposed to resemble a steamroller? Pfft.

There is no action in this issue. None. Sure Maleev draws pretty images of Daredevil jumping around, but that's just to fool you into thinking there's action, but don't be fooled. This issue consists of two dialogue-weighted scenes. That's it. Two scenes, and those scenes are just talking.

At this point I have to wonder if Bendis has any understanding of what the strengths of this medium are. You can do amazing things with sequential art. Some wonderful stories have been told with this medium. But it's a visual medium. Bendis is writing something better conceived as a radio play. He is not employing this medium anywhere near its potential.

As far as this radio play goes, I suppose the scene at the Bugle would be interesting. Jameson is such a blowhard in this scene. However, I kind of prefer how he was written by Miller during Born Again. In that story he had faith in the Bugle, and in Ben Urich. He was tough, but Miller was probably the first writer of whom I'm aware that showed Jameson's positive traits. In this issue, Jameson is one-dimensional. It's in line with how Stan Lee wrote him, and how J.K. Simmons' portrayed him, but maybe he's even more of a petulant child here.

Also, if Peter doesn't work at the Bugle anymore, than how did he know this meeting was going to happen. I imagine that Jameson called everyone into the boardroom the second he saw the cover of the Globe. It couldn't have been scheduled; it must have been impromptu. Peter couldn't have known, yet he just happens by, stopping in the boardroom at the exact right moment, and then he just leaves. And Jameson doesn't even notice he's in there? How does that work?

The only thing this scene establishes is that Ben and Peter both now know that the other one knows Matt is Daredevil, and Ben is on thin ice at the Bugle. It doesn't take ten pages to give us that information (unless you're Brian Michael Bendis). Any other creative team could make those points in one page -- two if you want to stretch out. But Bendis... so many trees killed.

As for the remainder of the issue, I don't know what to say. Why do we need any of it? The "cliffhanger" of the last issue had Foggy suggesting it might be time to retire Daredevil. Here he says why. It's exhausting reading this monologue separated into dozens of word balloons. Is it impossible for Bendis to be succinct? It doesn't take all of these pages to talk about a "cycle of violence." Is this such a revolutionary concept? Does Bendis think this is so mind-blowing that he needs all of this space to explain it in as much detail and as repetitively as possible?

Now, I realize that most people who enjoy Bendis, and who defend him on this board, have read his stories collected in trade. I have not. However, even if you're reading the "Out" trade, at some point you have to realize that you're turning a lot of pages without anything happening.

I remember really resenting Maleev's artwork in this issue. It looks like he spent a lot of time drawing these pretty pictures of Daredevil jumping around, but they have nothing to do with the conversation. Or he's jumping around, remembering the conversation he had with Foggy. But the focus isn't on the jumping around. It's on the conversation. The jumping around is just there to make it look like there's action, but this issue is just two conversations. It's like Bendis showed Stuart Moore the script, and Moore (for once) made a suggestion. "We need Daredevil jumping around or something." So Bendis retooled it, so he's jumping around remembering the conversation, instead of the conversation just happening. It's cheap, and I would go even further and say it's misrepresentation. Steamroller indeed.

Any other creative team would have used four pages to do what Bendis and Maleev did in this entire issue.

1 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the opening conversation at the Bugle. I don't know if I like it nine pages worth of liking it (including one splash page), but I like it - particularly because it leads to a conversation between Peter Parker and Ben Urich (who, for being from the same paper for many years, always seemed worlds apart). The idea that they mutually shared such an important secret but never knew the other knew is quite cool (now maybe Ben should have used his legendary investigatory skills to find out Spider-Man's secret identity too, but I digress).

After that, the issue flips. I like the art style. It's a giant splash panel with lots of little panels. Matt looks engulfed by the world around him and so tiny in his costume. The actual mini-panels are a bit disjointed overall, which is a knock, but the main focus is a conversation between Foggy and Matt. It's not a bad conversation, but a reasonably paced story would have stuck it in issue 33. It's interesting to see him change strategies. It starts with "you had a good run, but it's time to retire." When that doesn't work, he argues that Matt is unstable. Foggy makes the case that Matt is losing it from the death of Karen and that everything (the outbursts of violence and all that) come from that. And, honestly, he kind of is. This is why I've always argued that this run is a terrible place to start reading Daredevil. His actions here are understandable in the same way they could be understood in Born Again, but only when you've seen the entire history of the character.

Overall, decompression on steroids continues. I do like Matt's mental breakdown that's starting here. I like that his default position in adversity is to put on his costume, as terrible an idea as that is overall. But, once again, very little happens. Three and a Half Stars.
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james castle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:

At this point I have to wonder if Bendis has any understanding of what the strengths of this medium are. You can do amazing things with sequential art. Some wonderful stories have been told with this medium. But it's a visual medium. Bendis is writing something better conceived as a radio play. He is not employing this medium anywhere near its potential.


Yeah, I really feel the same way. I think the true extent of this only hit me a few years ago when Bendis was in the middle of his (terrible) X-Men run. There was an extended scene of Cyclops and Mystique SITTING ON A COUCH talking. Literally sitting side by side discussing whatever issue was going on at the time.

Superhero comics are about enhanced emotion and action. It's okay, and maybe even the goal, to have superhero characters talking about their feelings. But they're supposed to be doing it while trying to contain an exploding sun or while dodging knives throw by Bullseye. Bendis' insane turn towards thinking up an issue (usually a pretty boring one) and then having various characters standing(or sitting) around talking about it will never make sense to me.
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james castle
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out "Plot" Part 3

1. Agent Driver, Henry and Mr. Davis review the evidence that Matt Murdock is Daredevil in light of Silke telling them that he heard third hand that Matt is Daredevil. Mr. Davis tells them not to tell anyone.

2. Henry, who has a distrustful (?) wife, goes to hang out outside Matt’s place. He sees Black Widow up on the rooftop. He think about it and his wife for a bit and then he tells the paper that he’s heard that Matt is Daredevil.

3. Unbelievably the paper prints this unconfirmed anonymous story and it's on the front cover of the next day’s paper.

4. Foggy and Matt both find out and talk about what it means. Foggy suggest Matt quit.

5. Over at the Daily Bugle J.Jonah Jameson is all mad that they didn’t get the scoop (that was in the news just weeks before?). Ben and Peter tell JJ that Matt isn’t Daredevil and Ben is (not?) fired. Ben and Peter talk about Matt.

6. Back at Matt’s place Matt and Foggy are still talking. Foggy says that being Daredevil has created a circle of violence that has resulted in two of Matt’s girlfriend’s being killed. Weirdly neither Foggy nor Matt are like “yeah, but one came back….so it’s only one really?”.

7. Outside a redheaded lady says some cliche things that neighbors always say to reporters. She also says a sort of insulting thing about handicapped people being pleasant.

8. Matt suits up and lurks over the shoulders of the reporters.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Quote:
His life is in shambles — now Daredevil has to pick up the pieces

In this startling issue, Matt Murdock must come to terms with an anger that threatens to consume him! Can his friends Ben Urich and Peter Parker help? Find out as the Bendis/Maleev era steamrolls on!

This issue is supposed to be startling? This action is supposed to resemble a steamroller? Pfft.

There is no action in this issue. None. Sure Maleev draws pretty images of Daredevil jumping around, but that's just to fool you into thinking there's action, but don't be fooled. This issue consists of two dialogue-weighted scenes. That's it. Two scenes, and those scenes are just talking.

At this point I have to wonder if Bendis has any understanding of what the strengths of this medium are. You can do amazing things with sequential art. Some wonderful stories have been told with this medium. But it's a visual medium. Bendis is writing something better conceived as a radio play. He is not employing this medium anywhere near its potential.

As far as this radio play goes, I suppose the scene at the Bugle would be interesting. Jameson is such a blowhard in this scene. However, I kind of prefer how he was written by Miller during Born Again. In that story he had faith in the Bugle, and in Ben Urich. He was tough, but Miller was probably the first writer of whom I'm aware that showed Jameson's positive traits. In this issue, Jameson is one-dimensional. It's in line with how Stan Lee wrote him, and how J.K. Simmons' portrayed him, but maybe he's even more of a petulant child here.

Also, if Peter doesn't work at the Bugle anymore, than how did he know this meeting was going to happen. I imagine that Jameson called everyone into the boardroom the second he saw the cover of the Globe. It couldn't have been scheduled; it must have been impromptu. Peter couldn't have known, yet he just happens by, stopping in the boardroom at the exact right moment, and then he just leaves. And Jameson doesn't even notice he's in there? How does that work?

The only thing this scene establishes is that Ben and Peter both now know that the other one knows Matt is Daredevil, and Ben is on thin ice at the Bugle. It doesn't take ten pages to give us that information (unless you're Brian Michael Bendis). Any other creative team could make those points in one page -- two if you want to stretch out. But Bendis... so many trees killed.

As for the remainder of the issue, I don't know what to say. Why do we need any of it? The "cliffhanger" of the last issue had Foggy suggesting it might be time to retire Daredevil. Here he says why. It's exhausting reading this monologue separated into dozens of word balloons. Is it impossible for Bendis to be succinct? It doesn't take all of these pages to talk about a "cycle of violence." Is this such a revolutionary concept? Does Bendis think this is so mind-blowing that he needs all of this space to explain it in as much detail and as repetitively as possible?

Now, I realize that most people who enjoy Bendis, and who defend him on this board, have read his stories collected in trade. I have not. However, even if you're reading the "Out" trade, at some point you have to realize that you're turning a lot of pages without anything happening.

I remember really resenting Maleev's artwork in this issue. It looks like he spent a lot of time drawing these pretty pictures of Daredevil jumping around, but they have nothing to do with the conversation. Or he's jumping around, remembering the conversation he had with Foggy. But the focus isn't on the jumping around. It's on the conversation. The jumping around is just there to make it look like there's action, but this issue is just two conversations. It's like Bendis showed Stuart Moore the script, and Moore (for once) made a suggestion. "We need Daredevil jumping around or something." So Bendis retooled it, so he's jumping around remembering the conversation, instead of the conversation just happening. It's cheap, and I would go even further and say it's misrepresentation. Steamroller indeed.

Any other creative team would have used four pages to do what Bendis and Maleev did in this entire issue.

1 out of 5.


I am pretty sure Jameson was shown to have positive traits in Spider-Man comics before his appearance in Born Again, pride in his son, patriotism and a willingness to stand up to gangsters. I also think even before Born Again, Jameson has shown a willingness to stand up for his employees when it counted.

I do think sometimes people assume that a character only became well written when Miller got a hold of them, sure he strengthen the characters of DD, Bullseye and Kingpin, but they did have good stories before Miller wrote them. I also think Garth Ennis did more strengthen the Punisher then Miller did.

Anyway, I don't think Jameson is out of character here, Jameson never liked costumed vigilantes who operate outside the law, he always had a grudge against them, if he doesn't like Spidey for that reason, why would he be forgiving to DD? Just because Jameson is willing to stand up to gangsters like Kingpin, doesn't mean he will give any costumed vigilante he doesn't like a bye.

Anyway I thought some of the dialogue in this issue was fun, though I thought it was foolish that both Ben and Peter admitted knowing who DD is in front of Jameson. But this was another talking head issue and you could have streamlined this issue with the last one and made for a stronger story. I know this is a talking head story arc, but I there was more interesting character stuff that we could have explored by now.

But I kinda liked the meeting at the Bugle, despite some the logical flaws mentioned in this thread and I felt the conservation between Foggy and Matt was kinda raw, so I kinda enjoyed that. But streamlining those scenes and allowing for other character stuff would have helped.

In the end though, I will give this issue 2 and a half stars, some decent stuff happened, but the slow pace left this issue feeling mediocre. I still stick by my opinion that Out is the most dull of Bendis' DD arcs, despite it being something that will affect DD for the next 15 years.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 2 #35 - I'm Not Afraid of You



Quote:
After helping Spidey mop up Mr. Hyde, Matt calls a press conference to clear up the allegations that he is, in fact, DD


The sad thing is, I didn't even find the original solicit for this one, but the entire plot summary comes off as pretty vague as well.

Due 12/10
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like Brian Michael Bendis' writing.

However, I'm not asking him to transform into 1980s Frank Miller. I like writers to be themselves. I just assume that Bendis has read "Born Again". I don't think Matt shed a single tear throughout that entire story, and he lost everything. In "Out" his secret identity is threatened (for at least the third time) and he's weeping like an overflowing bathtub. At least by the end of this issue he makes a decision as to how he'll deal with this, but up until then Matt has been dithering for three issues.

I think Bendis may have been attempting poetry here. How else to explain all the repetition. "I am not afraid of you." "Center and focus." It looks like poetry, but I think it's just Bendis' attempt at appearing poetic. I did like the head turn that steers Matt out of his pity party.

As always, scenes consume way too many panels. The mugging of the woman is a perfect example. Going into the scene, we already know Matt has heard the woman scream. Matt is a superhero, and superheroes stop muggings, so there is really no need to spend the entire next page showing the muggers attacking the woman.

The next page was confusing for me. The mugging is taking place in a dark alleyway, and one of the muggers is running toward a yellow opening. The next panel shows the mugger smashing into the counter inside a diner, and the way he's hitting the counter doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem like Matt threw him onto the counter. It doesn't even look like the counter is in front of the doorway.

I guess the moment I've always remembered from this issue is when the one guy asks Daredevil what colour his shirt is. Is Matt tempted to hit the guy? Or was he going to feel his shirt? Who knows? It's a very awkward moment.

Wasn't the Moondance diner where Mary-Jane briefly worked in Spider-Man 2?

One thing that drove me crazy throughout Bendis' run was how nobody takes Daredevil's villains seriously. Here we see Mr. Hyde bashing a van against Matt's home, and everyone in the media treats him like a joke. Spider-Man and Daredevil beat him rather easily, and then they both swing away from the press. What did this scene add to the story? Was it just an excuse to put a supervillain in this issue and to have Spidey on the cover? That must be it, because the story could have kept going without this scene.

It takes Matt 26 more days to make a decision as to how to handle this (which, again, has happened to him at least two times before).

This issue didn't annoy me as much as the previous one. However, Bendis' pacing is still awful, and Maleev can't draw action at all. My major complaint is how much of a wuss Matt is being. He's my hero and a character for whom I have the utmost respect, but here he talks about how his world is falling apart, and he's being so indecisive. I think Bendis transformed Matt into a reactive character, and Matt didn't revert to being proactive until Waid started writing in Volume 3.

2 out of 5.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pointed out that Matt's basically having a breakdown. It's weird. Miller did it in basically an issue, but it felt like there were more events leading up to it, so this feels more rushed. That being said, it's worth keeping that in mind in explaining his actions (which are, otherwise, unexplainable).

I do like the "they always say their name" moment. It's very anti-superhero comics Bendis, but it's worth a chuckle. I also like Spider-Man showing up. It gives a sense that Matt isn't in this alone. He has the help of others.

I also do like the cliffhanger here. It's been building for way too long, but it does lead to tension. In retrospect, I know what happens next, but I can feel the suspense hanging in the air.

I'm going Four Stars. I think the second half of the issue strengthens it to help make up for its shortcomings. It's obviously still a thin story (hence the lack of anything I'm writing about it), but this was an improvement, imo.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
I pointed out that Matt's basically having a breakdown. It's weird. Miller did it in basically an issue, but it felt like there were more events leading up to it, so this feels more rushed. That being said, it's worth keeping that in mind in explaining his actions (which are, otherwise, unexplainable).

I think over the years it's become accepted to justify Matt's actions around this time through this "breakdown." However, is this really a breakdown? What is a breakdown anyway? Re-reading this comics, it simply feels like indecision leading to inaction. It's possible that it can be called depression, and we've seen him depressed before. But we've also seen him be decisive and proactive before and since.

It's possible that at this point in the story that the loss of Karen is influencing his mood, and I can't remember of Foggy suggested that during his filibuster in the previous issue, but it's also possible that his mood is simply due to the Globe headline. It's left open for us to interpret. I guess some readers like that, but I think it's leaving a little too much unanswered.

I also think that this "breakdown" was used as an excuse to justify too much out-of-character behaviour.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think him taking off his mask right in front of all the cameras was suggestive of a breakdown. He's not thinking at all and is almost in a fugue state.

I don't recall if Foggy mentioned Karen yet, but I know it comes up at some point related to this whole mess.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
I don't like Brian Michael Bendis' writing.

However, I'm not asking him to transform into 1980s Frank Miller. I like writers to be themselves. I just assume that Bendis has read "Born Again". I don't think Matt shed a single tear throughout that entire story, and he lost everything. In "Out" his secret identity is threatened (for at least the third time) and he's weeping like an overflowing bathtub. At least by the end of this issue he makes a decision as to how he'll deal with this, but up until then Matt has been dithering for three issues.

I think Bendis may have been attempting poetry here. How else to explain all the repetition. "I am not afraid of you." "Center and focus." It looks like poetry, but I think it's just Bendis' attempt at appearing poetic. I did like the head turn that steers Matt out of his pity party.

As always, scenes consume way too many panels. The mugging of the woman is a perfect example. Going into the scene, we already know Matt has heard the woman scream. Matt is a superhero, and superheroes stop muggings, so there is really no need to spend the entire next page showing the muggers attacking the woman.

The next page was confusing for me. The mugging is taking place in a dark alleyway, and one of the muggers is running toward a yellow opening. The next panel shows the mugger smashing into the counter inside a diner, and the way he's hitting the counter doesn't make any sense. It doesn't seem like Matt threw him onto the counter. It doesn't even look like the counter is in front of the doorway.

I guess the moment I've always remembered from this issue is when the one guy asks Daredevil what colour his shirt is. Is Matt tempted to hit the guy? Or was he going to feel his shirt? Who knows? It's a very awkward moment.

Wasn't the Moondance diner where Mary-Jane briefly worked in Spider-Man 2?

One thing that drove me crazy throughout Bendis' run was how nobody takes Daredevil's villains seriously. Here we see Mr. Hyde bashing a van against Matt's home, and everyone in the media treats him like a joke. Spider-Man and Daredevil beat him rather easily, and then they both swing away from the press. What did this scene add to the story? Was it just an excuse to put a supervillain in this issue and to have Spidey on the cover? That must be it, because the story could have kept going without this scene.

It takes Matt 26 more days to make a decision as to how to handle this (which, again, has happened to him at least two times before).

This issue didn't annoy me as much as the previous one. However, Bendis' pacing is still awful, and Maleev can't draw action at all. My major complaint is how much of a wuss Matt is being. He's my hero and a character for whom I have the utmost respect, but here he talks about how his world is falling apart, and he's being so indecisive. I think Bendis transformed Matt into a reactive character, and Matt didn't revert to being proactive until Waid started writing in Volume 3.

2 out of 5.


Well at least something happened in this issue, a super villain attack, but it meant nothing, it added nothing to the plot and was not an exciting action scene.

I notice a problem with some B-list Marvel villains, writers can't decide whether they are legitimate threats or a joke. I have seen Hyde get even more humiliating beat downs then the one DD gave him here, but I have seen plenty of stories that treated him like a legitimate threat: the 90s DD story where Hyde was on trial for a crime he did not commit, his actions in the Siege of the Avengers Mansion story, the Peter David Spider-Man story from the last decade and that story where he tried to blow up NYC just to kill Cobra.

I kinda wish all the writers would treat Hyde with respect and have someone like Man-Bull be a dumb thug villain who is easily defeated.

Again I think there was a missed opportunity not showing more villains react to DD's outing, have some of his villains hanging out in the Bar With No Name and discuss this turn of events, that would have been an interesting character building issue, rather then what we got for the last couple of issues.

I wonder if this story would have been better with a B plot where DD deals with a generic villain through out this story and that informs this story, acting like a framing device. That at least shows DD being proactive in some way. This story just seems like random stuff happening.

The Mr. Hyde thing was the most interesting thing that happened, despite the fact it was not very impressive. Spider-Man shows up for a pointless cameo, it would have been more interesting and character building if they had a conversation about recent events.

DD taking off mask and ranting to himself just out of eye shot of the press makes him seem crazy. He stopped a mugging, which was fine. The conversation between Ben Urich and Matt was okay. But besides that, nothing much happened.

I give this issue 2 stars.
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Mike Murdock
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Joined: 08 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Overlord wrote:

I notice a problem with some B-list Marvel villains, writers can't decide whether they are legitimate threats or a joke. I have seen Hyde get even more humiliating beat downs then the one DD gave him here, but I have seen plenty of stories that treated him like a legitimate threat: the 90s DD story where Hyde was on trial for a crime he did not commit, his actions in the Siege of the Avengers Mansion story, the Peter David Spider-Man story from the last decade and that story where he tried to blow up NYC just to kill Cobra.

I kinda wish all the writers would treat Hyde with respect and have someone like Man-Bull be a dumb thug villain who is easily defeated.


Honestly, Mr. Hyde would be more interesting as someone who's smarter. Maybe the formula affects his intelligence, but he invented that formula. He's clearly a scientific genius. If it pops up on Marvel Unlimited, I'd love to do the trial of Mr. Hyde story. Really, some I'd like to do more 90s in general.

Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #36 - One Hundred Percent Untrue



Quote:
Guest-starring Luke Cage!


I've been trying to track down the original solicits because all the other synopses seemed too spoilery. I guess this is the opposite of that.

Due 12/17
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Dimetre
Parts of a Hole


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
If it pops up on Marvel Unlimited, I'd love to do the trial of Mr. Hyde story.

I'd be up for that as well.
Mike Murdock wrote:
Next up:

Daredevil Vol. 2 #36 - One Hundred Percent Untrue



Quote:
Guest-starring Luke Cage!

As Bendis Daredevil issues go, this one isn't that bad. It has its problems, but it's better than the last couple of issues.

I have my hang-up about Matt's choice to sue a newspaper for $400 million for printing a story he knows is true, but whatever. Bendis chose to have Matt do that.

Matt says, "I will not be publicly discussing this matter further until the suit is settled," and the only other thing we see him do in this issue is discuss the matter over the phone. I guess discussing a matter over the phone doesn't count as public?

What was the point of using an entire page for Natasha's taxi ride? Why did she do that? She was already in disguise.

Natasha has come a long way in the comics. She's employed as cheesecake in this issue, and it makes me admire how seriously she's been written in her current series by Mark Waid and Chris Samnee, along with her previous series by Nathan Edmunson and Phil Noto. Her lack of regard for Matt's predicament is alarming. She likes having him jump around rooftops with her, and that's all that matters.

So she flusters Foggy over his "cycle of violence" philosophy, and comes to the conclusion that everything Foggy said to Matt was purely out of Foggy's own self-interest. I don't completely agree with her. I think a lot of what he said was out of genuine concern for Matt, but that doesn't matter. Bendis wants us to think Natasha's right, so she's right.

The scene with Vanessa was well done. It's so funny that we're re-reading this comic now, because wait 'til you see who bought Fisk Towers! Maleev's use of shadow and candlelight is gorgeous. Can someone tell me what the painting over the table is? It looks religious, but I don't know why the Fisks would have a painting like that.

I don't like when Matt turns his head towards a sound. Why would he do that? Here, he cranes his neck upward, as if to look toward the rooftop. In reality, Matt Murdock wouldn't do that. It would be better if we had an internal monologue stating he senses a presence on the rooftop.

It's funny, but I had sort of forgot about this guest star on the last page. There's probably a reason why I forgot about it...

The scene with Vanessa rescues this issue for me, even if Bendis' has horribly misused her character. I still have big problems with Matt's lawsuit against the Globe, and I thought the Black Widow, I character who is one of Marvel's greatest these days, is ridiculous here. Luke Cage's presence here amounts to nothing. It didn't annoy me as much as the last couple, so I give this issue a grade right down the middle: 2.5 out of 5.
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