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DAREDEVIL #20 Preview, Reviews and Discussion

 
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What did you think of DAREDEVIL #20?
5
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
4
83%
 83%  [ 5 ]
3
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
2
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6

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Kuljit Mithra
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: DAREDEVIL #20 Preview, Reviews and Discussion Reply with quote

DAREDEVIL #20 by Soule, Garney and Milla ships May 17th, and here is a preview!



http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V5-020

Please use this thread for all discussion when the issue ships next week!
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Dimetre
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Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My big gripe first: We shouldn't have had to wait twenty issues for this. Leading fans on for that long borders on exploitation. Treat your fans with some respect.

At least Soule's run, in the meantime, has been decent. Not great-- but decent.

Now, as per this issue, it's very good. The method with which the reset button has been reset makes sense to me. I can get behind this.

I like how this wasn't Daredevil's decision. I like how his first instinct, upon discovering what happened, was to fix it. Even though I had problems with Kirsten, it was actually sad that their relationship was brought to an end because of this event. I like how good he admitted to feeling going around and busting up random baddies. The end of the story with him recommitting himself to his legal career was very satisfying. It's very good.

However, there was a massive missed opportunity. We actually see Matt unmask in front of Foggy, but in that actual scene there is no anger from Foggy. We are told about Foggy's anger later on, but wouldn't everyone have appreciated reading that scene? It's one of the great mysteries of Volume Five!

Also, does Killgrave's machine allow him to command people across North America or the entire world? Or, are the children able to pull together and, with the help of the entire machine, command the entire world? I was kind of surprised that the New York Bar Association was affected, since their on the other coast, and Killgrave seemed to have power over San Francisco only. If the children together are that much more powerful, I think Soule should have done a better job explaining.

Now, it's occurred to me that Wilson Fisk no longer knows Daredevil's secret identity. That is a huge development. I have been enjoying the new Kingpin series, but this is a huge change to the relationship. Killgrave now seems to have what was once Fisk's privilege, which could make the Daredevil/Purple Man rivalry much more interesting, although I think the wider public now think of Killgrave as a Jessica Jones villain. Is this going to diminish the Daredevil/Kingpin rivalry?

Anyway, a good story, even if it's over a year too late. I gave it four stars.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ I like how Killgrave is one of the first villains to know and use Matt's identity (I think Cranston learned it first, but didn't really use it). This is a definitely a dramatic change for him to be the only one to know once again. Kingpin's change is a big one. I have to wonder if they'll turn that card over (in some way that isn't Born Again).

I like how this wraps up. Even knowing what was going to happen didn't prepare me for the surreal horror that was Matt's reaction. There's this weird tension. He didn't want this to happen, but he really did all the same. He could have reversed it any second, but he didn't. I'm curious about the Priest's saying at the end. Is there nothing to forgive? Like Matt, my instinct would be to feel guilt as well. Regardless, Matt feels guilt and I think it earns the stakes of what's to come with whatever he has planned next arc. Five Stars.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Murdock wrote:
He could have reversed it any second, but he didn't.

It doesn't seem to me that he could have reversed it. The children were gone.
Mike Murdock wrote:
I'm curious about the Priest's saying at the end. Is there nothing to forgive? Like Matt, my instinct would be to feel guilt as well.

This guy ain't your typical priest. What other clergy would view as sins, I think this priest, because of his "street" nature, sees many of those things as justifiable -- hard decisions that must be made to preserve order. I don't think this priest would empathize with Frank Castle too much, but I think he's a good spiritual advisor for Matt. Besides, no one is harder on Matt than himself. Maybe Marvel wanted Kirsten gone, but in terms of the characters, I think Matt's act was admirably selfless. She made him happy, but she wasn't safe with him. She would have chosen to stay with him if she had the choice, but she would have, no doubt, eventually paid for that choice with her life.

So, in the end, I'm not sure if Matt committed a sin. It may seem paternalistic to not let Kirsten decide, but I get why Matt didn't.
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Mike Murdock
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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dimetre wrote:
Mike Murdock wrote:
He could have reversed it any second, but he didn't.

It doesn't seem to me that he could have reversed it. The children were gone.


I meant with Kirsten. He could have unmasked himself.

Quote:
Mike Murdock wrote:
I'm curious about the Priest's saying at the end. Is there nothing to forgive? Like Matt, my instinct would be to feel guilt as well.

This guy ain't your typical priest. What other clergy would view as sins, I think this priest, because of his "street" nature, sees many of those things as justifiable -- hard decisions that must be made to preserve order. I don't think this priest would empathize with Frank Castle too much, but I think he's a good spiritual advisor for Matt. Besides, no one is harder on Matt than himself. Maybe Marvel wanted Kirsten gone, but in terms of the characters, I think Matt's act was admirably selfless. She made him happy, but she wasn't safe with him. She would have chosen to stay with him if she had the choice, but she would have, no doubt, eventually paid for that choice with her life.


I think that's a fair point. I hadn't considered that.

Quote:
So, in the end, I'm not sure if Matt committed a sin. It may seem paternalistic to not let Kirsten decide, but I get why Matt didn't.


I think his actions towards Kirsten were pretty rough.
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Sunni
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Joined: 07 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this issue was a nice denouement to the climax of the last one and a good wrap up to the arc. And it was sweet of the purple children to do something for Matt. I don’t expect everyone that he helps to repay him in some manner, but I appreciated that they saw how much he had done for them and wanted to reciprocate, even though they went about it the wrong way as Matt himself mentions in his watch analogy.

Dimetre wrote:
My big gripe first: We shouldn't have had to wait twenty issues for this. Leading fans on for that long borders on exploitation. Treat your fans with some respect.

I haven’t had a problem with it because I’ve enjoyed the ride along the way and IMHO we did get a satisfying resolution. If I hadn’t liked the answer, I might have felt differently about the wait time.

Mike Murdock wrote:
Even knowing what was going to happen didn't prepare me for the surreal horror that was Matt's reaction.

Garney did a great job on Matt’s facial expressions in this issue.

Dimetre wrote:
Also, does Killgrave's machine allow him to command people across North America or the entire world?

My understanding from last issue showing people in France and Asia fighting when Matt asked for chaos was it was the whole world.

Dimetre wrote:
Even though I had problems with Kirsten, it was actually sad that their relationship was brought to an end because of this event.

Dimetre wrote:
Maybe Marvel wanted Kirsten gone,

I had problems with Kirsten as well, but IMHO it’s just another example of current Marvel favoring single characters. In Matt’s case, his interplay with both Elektra and Echo thus far in this run has been more dynamic because he’s unattached.

Dimetre wrote:
I think Matt's act was admirably selfless. She made him happy, but she wasn't safe with him. She would have chosen to stay with him if she had the choice, but she would have, no doubt, eventually paid for that choice with her life.

So, in the end, I'm not sure if Matt committed a sin. It may seem paternalistic to not let Kirsten decide, but I get why Matt didn't.

Mike Murdock wrote:
I think his actions towards Kirsten were pretty rough.

IMHO it’s all three. It’s rough because she had no warning that anything was wrong, and she doesn’t know that his vigilante activities are the driver for him to break it off. It’s paternalistic because he’s not letting her in on his reasoning and he’s making the decision for her because he believes he knows better than she does. Finally, it’s admirably selfless. Matt put Kirsten’s life and happiness above his own by removing her from his. As he mentioned himself, Sam’s injury proves that he did do the right thing. People close to him get hurt…which makes Matt hanging onto Foggy’s friendship a selfish choice. And that’s interesting.

Dimetre wrote:
However, there was a massive missed opportunity. We actually see Matt unmask in front of Foggy, but in that actual scene there is no anger from Foggy. We are told about Foggy's anger later on, but wouldn't everyone have appreciated reading that scene? It's one of the great mysteries of Volume Five!

I would have liked seeing that too, but I presume Soule is holding off on more Foggy for that very reason, to make us wait for it. Between using his apartment, needing phone assistance, and asking for career advice, Matt is still relying on Foggy for a lot of help, but Foggy is barely tolerating him. I do find it amusing that Foggy is so mad he knows Matt is Daredevil; I would think that the fact that almost no one else knows would make things easier, not harder.

Mike Murdock wrote:
There's this weird tension. He didn't want this to happen, but he really did all the same. He could have reversed it any second, but he didn't. I'm curious about the Priest's saying at the end. Is there nothing to forgive? Like Matt, my instinct would be to feel guilt as well.

Dimetre wrote:
This guy ain't your typical priest. What other clergy would view as sins, I think this priest, because of his "street" nature, sees many of those things as justifiable -- hard decisions that must be made to preserve order. I don't think this priest would empathize with Frank Castle too much, but I think he's a good spiritual advisor for Matt.

I agree, and Father Jordan’s ink, fighting, and Ordo Draconum membership support his different viewpoint.

Mike Murdock wrote:
Regardless, Matt feels guilt and I think it earns the stakes of what's to come with whatever he has planned next arc.

Dimetre wrote:
Besides, no one is harder on Matt than himself.

Which is driven home both with how Matt doesn’t say anything when Father Jordan says he needs to forgive himself and how he tells his boss that all will be forgiven if his plan works so he can fulfill the penance Father Jordan has given him. I’m excited for Supreme!
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Rand
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Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late reply, but someone needs to point out that this issue's revelation doesn't line up with what we were told way back in the first issue of Soule's run. Don't believe me? Dig out your copy of #1 and follow along on pages 14-15.

P14, p4

FOGGY: "Just because you let me remember doesn't change what you did to make everyone else forget."

We just witnessed (in #20) Foggy remembering that Matt is DD; he even acknowledges he had forgotten.

Well... back in the thread for #2, I commented:

Quote:
I was especially confused when Foggy said [in #1] something along the lines of "You made everyone forget, except me!", which (no matter the means) struck me as more bizarre than saying something along the lines of "You made everyone forget, then told me!"


Hey! Turns out my suspicion was exactly right!

If anyone out there was wondering "How did Matt make everyone except Foggy forget?"... he didn't. Soule lied to us right out of the gate, then strung us along for nearly 18 months before delivering this unapologetic about-face!

PS: There's also the fact that Foggy states that Matt was the one who made everyone forget. He says so in the quote above, and he implies as much again on P15, p2; in fact, Matt himself confesses [?!] in that same later panel.

However... we're (presumably) to believe that Matt -- at some point in between #20's flashbacks and #1's main action -- lied to Foggy about the means of his secret ID being restored, so that incongruence is more easily dismissed.
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