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Daredevil #111 discussion
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Dave Wallace
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject: Daredevil #111 discussion Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Yes, as ever, I'm plugging one of my reviews. Smile

(And I think that there are some extra preview pages along with it that may not have been seen yet, too...)

Anyway, here's my take on DD #111. I'll be interested to hear what everyone else thinks of it. A good first issue with a couple of particularly interesting developments that I've tried not to spoil.

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/reviews/12221730566343.htm

Dave
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice review, Dave.
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vtsoxfan7
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Joined: 31 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As always, very good review Mr Wallace!

I have to agree that I was very impressed with Clay Mann's pencils as he filled in for Lark on this issue. I'm a huge Lark fan so I obviously want him to stay on the book as long as possible but Mann would be an excellent choice for future fill in work/annuals/one shots.

I was also quite pleased that Lady Bullseye was in fact a completely new character. Brubaker's always been a man of his word throughout interviews and whatnot but with all of the hype the new character has received a tiny piece of my brain feared some cheap Marvel stunt.

Now this being a discussion thread I think it goes without saying, but just in case...
*******************SPOILERS**********************







In the thread about who our favorite female DD characters are (http://www.manwithoutfear.com/messageboard/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2514) I said I really enjoyed Dakota North but hoped that she would continue to be that platonic friend who kept his self-pity in check. As their time together this issue steamrolled towards the inevitable conclusion I was a little disappointed that Bru went this way, but then I felt better about it with Matt's immediate questioning of his actions. Obviously this doesn't make things right but leads me to believe this is not going to be a continuing relationship.

I picked up the Djurdjevic and Dodson covers and will be placing a bid on the Aja cover sometime next week (my local shop auctions non 50/50 variants for a local charity). All in all a pretty good start to the new arc I think.
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Ian
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: I'm handing in my atheist card...The Bru is God. Reply with quote

Seriously. Who didn't think that Lady Bullseye was a bad idea when they first heard it? Well I for one am ready to eat crow no matter how it's served because issue 111 is the best issue all year HANDS DOWN. Lady Bullseye is AWESOME and Matt's behaviour in throughout is even more fun to watch than when he started breaking fingers to get information in the last issue. Good job Daredevil crew! You guys really knocked this one out of the park!
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtsoxfan7 wrote:
As always, very good review Mr Wallace!

Thanks! Smile

vtsoxfan7 wrote:
In the thread about who our favorite female DD characters are (http://www.manwithoutfear.com/messageboard/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2514) I said I really enjoyed Dakota North but hoped that she would continue to be that platonic friend who kept his self-pity in check. As their time together this issue steamrolled towards the inevitable conclusion I was a little disappointed that Bru went this way, but then I felt better about it with Matt's immediate questioning of his actions. Obviously this doesn't make things right but leads me to believe this is not going to be a continuing relationship.

Yeah, I really liked the way that this development was handled. It's realistic for Matt to be attracted to Dakota - especially as she gets drawn further and further into Daredevil's world - but I also liked the way that Brubaker had Matt immediately question himself and feel bad about their tryst. It shows that Milla hasn't just been shunted off to one side, and that she'll continue to be an important presence in the book.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, this is so wrong...
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Kirika
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Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: I'm handing in my atheist card...The Bru is God. Reply with quote

Ian wrote:
Seriously. Who didn't think that Lady Bullseye was a bad idea when they first heard it? Well I for one am ready to eat crow no matter how it's served because issue 111 is the best issue all year HANDS DOWN. Lady Bullseye is AWESOME and Matt's behaviour in throughout is even more fun to watch than when he started breaking fingers to get information in the last issue. Good job Daredevil crew! You guys really knocked this one out of the park!


I don't know about it being the best, but I did like it. I loved the Lady Bullseye origin. It was believable and quite brutal.

As for the Matt/Dakota thing, I have to say that I agree that it was inevitable. It's only natural that Matt would gravitate towards a woman who knows about his work as DD, knows the risks, and accepts them. She brings out a side of Matt that we haven't really seen since...dare I say it...Karen Page. I get the "why" of these two. I didn't want to like this pairing but I do.
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Good: Lady Bullseye got a good start, which is positive as in the recent past, Matt's rogue gallery was a bit stagnant: I like Brubaker adding new enemies.

The So-So: Poor Dakota is now on the death row... No I don't think that Bru will ever kill her, as he's developed her into a very interesting character, and obviously likes her. But what happen when, in the distant furure, Brubaker leaves the series and the next Smith or Smithee writes a hacked story in which Dakota, as an old flame of Matt, follows the honoured tradition of being killed for hack's sake?

The Bad: Dakota not dating Foggy instead ;p
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm handing in my atheist card...The Bru is God. Reply with quote

Kirika wrote:
I get the "why" of these two. I didn't want to like this pairing but I do.

Dito. I managed to spoiler myself by reading a review I knew for a fact contained spoilers, and while I was a little annoyed with myself for it, I think it sort of helped me accept this development before reading the issue for myself. Strangely, I don't mind it. I thought I would. I thought that the two of them would be headed in this direction (or something close to it) eventually, but I didn't think it would happen this soon and as strange as it sounds, the whole things feels natural. I minded Matt's cheating on Karen with Typhoid a lot more. His actions here are very human after all. He's lonely, grieving and he finds someone who makes him feel better. Will this inevitably lead to a relationship right away? Probably not. I suspect he'll be wracked with guilt for a while...

Lady Bullseye... Oh yeah, she was in this issue too. Wink I think she seems like a cool character and I liked the origin, but storywise the aforementioned development sort of upstaged her introduction in my mind. All in all, a really great issue.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boo hoo hoo. I'm so lonely and grieving, let's cheat on my wife who is currently in care of a psychiatric institution.
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Matt was perfect, then yes, he wouldn't commit adultery. But he's not. I think it's an interesting angle to explore with the character.
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vtsoxfan7
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francesco wrote:
Boo hoo hoo. I'm so lonely and grieving, let's cheat on my wife who is currently in care of a psychiatric institution.


I don't think anyone is condoning the actions. Obviously what Matt did was wrong. I think what many of us are 'liking' is the realism with which the events are occurring. There are alot of other ways this hook up could have gone down that would have been extremely detrimental to not just the characters but the story as well. I think the way Bru is writing this, where the characters involved are questioning what they are doing and the ramifications of their actions adds another layer to the story. Matt didn't just question himself following the hook up, but Dakota even said 'what are we doing?' before they kissed after their training session.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Wallace wrote:
If Matt was perfect, then yes, he wouldn't commit adultery. But he's not. I think it's an interesting angle to explore with the character.


Of course Matt's not perfect, Dave. But, apart from the fact that suffering doesn't automatically justify you to do such actions, I think that Matt Murdock, hero of the book, should stand out a little from what "others would do".
He's supposed to be something more than the average female protagonist of romance novels you find in supermarkets, he's supposed to endure.

Heck, no one remembers the Widow storyarc? In it, he had practically broken with Milla, having been requested to sign the annulment by her lawyers. He returns home at night along with the Widow, after having kicked Jigsaw's butt, and there is this uber-sexy Russian redhead, all hot and ready to comfort him any way he wants.
They're about to lock lips but he stops. He can't do it, because of the simple reason that he still loves Milla and still feels married to her (and I might add, the Widow understands and respects that).

Now, I'm not saying that there should be coherence in this, that Matt should always behave one way because he did that before. God forbid it, in real life people continuously change their mind and ways of behaving.
I'll just say that I liked that portrayal of Matt better than this one.
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jumonji
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Francesco wrote:
Dave Wallace wrote:
If Matt was perfect, then yes, he wouldn't commit adultery. But he's not. I think it's an interesting angle to explore with the character.


Of course Matt's not perfect, Dave. But, apart from the fact that suffering doesn't automatically justify you to do such actions, I think that Matt Murdock, hero of the book, should stand out a little from what "others would do".

Here's where I tend to disagree, and I know you and I have had this conversation before. To me, Matt has always been the superhero next door in a way. While he possesses more of a heroic streak than most people, he is a flawed man and in this regard a "regular" person. I, in fact, love that he's a regular person with the same moral shortcomings as everyone else. I don't think that Matt is any more justified in cheating than anyone else is, nor do I really think the "alone and suffering" bit is necessarily an excuse. But it does provide an explanation for why he'd be more likely to fall for temptation than if the circumstances were different.

When I first read about this development, before reading the issue, I was taken aback by it. When reading the issue, I can sort of see and understand the chain of events, and I felt that the whole development, including Matt and Dakota's conversations throughout the issue explains where this is all coming from and how the two of them ended up where they did. I have always had the sense that Matt is essentially a good and noble person (I'm even in the "Matt is nice" camp in case you guys remember that thread), and, perhaps surprisingly, my assessment of the character hasn't changed. At all. His actions were immoral, not particularly heroic, but he is first and foremost a human being. I don't necessarily want a hero who's "better" than me or who provides a role model for the rest of us. Having him be flawed, within reason, is more interesting.

One thing I really like about the Matt/Dakota thing is that it appears that Bru is using it to dig a little deeper into Matt's psyche and that is one thing I'm 100% in favor of. I'm intrigued by this development actually, though I think this subplot will probably take a backseat to the exploration of the Lady Bullseye plot in the next couple of issues.
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Gloria
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe what annoys me a bit is the over-dramatic "What have you done, Matt?" after the deed is done. I mean, Matt wasn't drunk or drugged when he started (though maybe there's that subplot where Mr. Fear has pheromoned both Matt and Dakota to break them down)

At least Dakota asks "Matt, what are we doing?" before stepping into action.

Or maybe Matt has bedded Dakota under a nervous breakdown because of Milla's lunacy, whom he married because he had a nervous breakdown about Karen's death

Anyway, bru is one heckuva writer... Otherwise, we wouldn't be discussing this issue: I bet he's got us all pretty caught in the story Wink
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