Interview with the Save Daredevil Team
(January 2019)

If you've been following anything related to Daredevil online, you've no doubt heard about "#SaveDaredevil". The website at SaveDaredevil.com and petition to bring the show back with its former cast and crew has received plenty of media attention. I reached out to the team behind the initiative and asked them a few questions about what they want to achieve and some of the misconceptions people have about the show. Many thanks to all of them. Enjoy the interview!


Kuljit Mithra: Nice to chat with all of you. I'd first like to get an idea of the people behind this site and this campaign. I get the feeling I know most of you through my site or Twitter.


Phyllis: The campaign is run by a network of Daredevil fans from all over the world, and a number of us volunteered to provide answers for this interview so you’ll meet more as you get through the questions. We started out as just a small group on Twitter and have expanded to include volunteers from all corners of the Daredevil fandom. And you’re right, you probably know most of us through interactions on the ManWithoutFear account. Many of us have been following your site for a while!

Van: Yes, we started as a small group of DD fans and our numbers just exploded like any grassroots campaign does, all word of mouth and passion. One of the most positive benefits of being part of this campaign was getting to know so many other DD fans from around the world and understanding how much this show means to all of us.


Mithra: Originally the initiative was to "Renew Daredevil", so what sparked the effort, and how did all of you get together to coordinate? And the big question is "why"? Why this show? What has it meant for all of you?


Leslie: Personally speaking, the cancellation of Luke Cage worried me a lot. I tried to convince myself that the quality of Daredevil’s Season 3 and the critical praise it received would win the day, but nevertheless, I thought it would be good for Netflix to hear from the fans. I joined in with the #RenewDaredevil hashtag and was soon tagged into a group of extremely talented, organized and determined people who led the way on this campaign.

As for why this show, firstly, I find the character, even as a concept, endlessly intriguing. Secondly, the Bendis-Maleev run in the comics is the one I return to over and over again, and season one of Daredevil embraced what I love most about it: the aesthetic, the darkness, and the beautiful friendship of Matt and Foggy. From there I was hooked. Lastly, Charlie Cox was born to play Matt Murdock. I honestly can't imagine anyone pulling off such a layered and complicated role in such an effortlessly compelling way, nor do I want to.

Christine: As a longtime fan of the comics (due in large part to ManWithoutFear.com!) I wasn’t at all sure how I would feel about this show when it came out. However, despite not loving every single creative decision made, this show has come to mean a lot to me, and season three especially. While I was cautiously optimistic for a season four, I think a lot of us realized that there was more going on here than critical reception and viewing numbers. The cancellation of Luke Cage, in particular, was a shock to a lot of us, and that’s how the Renew Daredevil initiative came about.

Anna: This show brought me to the Marvel movies and the comics in general. After the cancellation of Luke Cage I was very worried. It was very important to me to let Marvel and Netflix know what I thought about Season 3 and how much I would love to see more. That’s what brought me to Twitter. One day I reached out to others who tweeted daily about Daredevil and asked them if we should do something together. I took Foggy’s words to heart: “We work together.” Someone created a group chat and that was the start of an incredible journey.

Kristina: This is the show that got me into the MCU. I was late to the party. I had seen Avengers in the theaters and that was it. This show blew me away.

Shelby: This is the show that started everything for me. I would’ve never started reading comics, attended cons, or met up with other Daredevil fans without this show. DD has brought so much happiness into my life that I HAVE TO FIGHT FOR IT. It’s only right.

Ayesha: The critical response to Season 3 was so positive and so hyped (even before its release), the thought that Daredevil may not get a Season 4 and beyond never crossed my mind. Not until Luke Cage got cancelled the same day S3 premiered. That’s when I got worried and started tweeting about how much I wanted Netflix to Renew Daredevil and found all my DD friends on social media were doing the same. Still, it didn't get truly coordinated until a week before cancellation.

As for why Daredevil? I've been a hardcore Trekkie all my life so I know a little about being a nerd and how that passion drives you. But aside from the movies, I'd never really been into anything Marvel or anything in the comic book genre until I watched Daredevil. This show, with its amazing writing, performances, fight-choreography, direction and production, has added a new level to my geekiness. It made me pick up a comic book for the first time in my life. In the last 2 years, I think I've converted more people into Daredevil fans than I can count, not just the show but the comics too. I love this show and this cast and I want more.

Van: Because we all had such strong feelings revolving around this series and these characters and because we were all reeling from the cancellations of Iron Fist followed so closely by Luke Cage, we anticipated the possibility that we might not get a season 4, so wanted to be proactive in pushing toward a renewal.

As a comics nerd and gamer, I'm used to live action adaptations to source materials being less than great. I didn't have high expectations about this series, either, but it didn't just obliterate my expectations, it did it while remaining faithful to the comics. And not just in a 2 hour feature film but in several seasons of television where they went on a deep dive of quality storytelling and characterisation for Matt Murdock and his people, his city, his enemies, his antagonists. They'd barely begun to scratch the surface on the source material, though.

Phyllis: It might be strange to admit this, but the original Renew Daredevil campaign was truly a spur of the moment decision? Many of the fans had been restless about the future of the series, but still hopeful about its prospects, especially given the tremendous response to S3. But after the sudden, consecutive cancellations of Iron Fist and Luke Cage, there was a sense of trepidation that wasn’t there before. A serendipitous decision to tag a number of fans and get them into a Twitter chat together was the starting point for all of this - a conversation started Sunday morning, and by Sunday night, the Renew Daredevil website and campaign was ready to go.

As far as why this show, that’s a great question. Obviously the reasons and motivation are personal to each individual participating in our campaign efforts, but if you talk to any of the fans behind the scenes or engaging online in campaign initiatives, there has been a consistent thoroughline in how Daredevil has changed their lives - whether it’s gotten them through hard times, made them discover / rediscover comics, or created a passion for this type of storytelling. No matter how we each came to discover Daredevil and this show, it’s certainly planted a long lasting love and enthusiasm for this character and this particular story, one that all of us were willing to fight for.


Mithra: Unfortunately, just before your first big drive to promote on social media, the show was canceled. What was that like for your group to digest, and then, how did you all decide to make the switch to "Save Daredevil"? And did your team all agree what "Save Daredevil" meant, at first?


Kristina: I remember seeing the tweet that Daredevil had been cancelled and immediately going to the group chat and writing in all caps “GUYS ARE YOU READING THIS.” It was shocking.

Leslie: It's all a blur to me, and I still get waves of nausea.

Anna: I remember that I had to work very early the next day. But I got up at around 4 am to organise my thoughts and write them down, just so I could share it with the others: we are like Murdocks - we may fall down, but we always get back up. That’s what got me through the difficult few days after the cancellation.

Shelby: It feels like we took 5 minutes to grieve before we were all like, “Okay, I guess we have to really get organized and fight now.”

Ayesha: I remember having just sat down to schedule my tweets for our first Friday tweetfest when the news came out. And then feeling a sense of numbness and shock. It was a relief to be among fans who were going through the same thing. The thought of not fighting never occurred to me.

Van: We publicly scheduled a Friday tweetstorm in hopes to get #RenewDaredevil trending on Twitter, and the announcement of the cancellation came the day before that. It reminded me a lot of Stick throwing Matt off a high-rise: We had to adapt on our way down and find a way to stick the landing. It wasn’t about renewing the series anymore, it was about saving it.

Phyllis: Not going to lie, it was a hard weekend. We had spent an incredible amount of effort and coordination between so many fans for our first #RenewDaredevil tweetfest and the announcement really felt like the rug was being pulled out from under us. It took a weekend for most of us to fully process the cancellation but once that weekend had past, it was clear that everyone wanted to get back into the fight. And in what ended up being a small blessing, we already had the basic infrastructure in place for a save our show campaign and it was almost instantaneous, the collective decision to rename to Save Daredevil and put the full force of our efforts toward communicating that we wanted to save THIS version of the show (with this cast, crew, and creative team). It was something we were very intentional about communicating, mainly because the rumors about the show being rebooted at Disney happened almost immediately.

Christine: I remember feeling disappointed and deflated, but still remarkably okay when the news first came. However, the feeling of sadness and anger at the cancellation grew each day, in particular after learning of the extensive plans for season four. I think a lot of us have this sense that the cast and crew got a really bum deal, and that no attempts were made on the part of Netflix to try to come to some kind of deal with Marvel that would have allowed the show to continue. I think a healthy amount of anger has been a boon to the campaign though. This isn’t your standard cancellation where a show has run its course, the people involved want to move on and the quality is suffering. Daredevil became an early casualty of the looming “streaming wars,” which made the whole thing feel so very wrong. I think that sense has helped our resolve and sense of purpose as a team.


Mithra: You've teamed with the people behind the petition on Change.org as well, and recently Vincent D'Onofrio has shared that link, which has brought the group lots of attention (and over 180,000 signatures so far) but has it been difficult to keep your team's message out there... because you're more than that petition, you have lots of ideas to get the various companies' attention.


Kristina: Make that over 187,000 as of right now! Sometimes it’s difficult when media outlets only talk about the petition, but still there are many others who have specifically talked about other aspects of the campaign, even calling the Operation Napkins initiative “clever.”

Shelby: There are still so many people who don’t realize the show has been cancelled, so I do feel like by tweeting and RTing the site and petition everyday, we are potentially reaching more and more people.

Anna: And Charlie Cox himself told people to sign the petition during his panel at Ace Comic Con. This gave us a big boost too, so a big thank you to him as well.

Leslie: We're all so grateful to Joseph Garcia for having the good sense to create the petition and get it off the ground like he did. And credit to Shelby for tracking him down, which enabled the campaign to cross promote with the petition.

For me, one of the biggest walls impeding our message has been trying to convey to people that we aren't babes in the woods so that we aren't just dismissed out of hand. We are doing our best to understand the situation based on all the available information. We are diligent in keeping up with reports, interviews, rumors and industry insider musings. We understand the behemoths we are up against, that there are contracts to consider, corporate mergers to navigate, and bad blood that taints it all, but we haven't yet seen the evidence that this campaign is a lost cause, and until we do, we maintain that Daredevil and its fans deserve to see this show, with these actors and creators, live on.

Christine: I don’t think that the petition and all the attention it’s received has gotten in the way of anything, since it’s helped put a spotlight on the campaign as a whole. We are all so grateful to see the numbers steadily going up, since that at least sends a signal that this is a show that matters to very many people. We know these people are a drop in the bucket compared to the many people who’ve enjoyed this show but may not be on social media or even know the show has been canceled.

Van: It's been a team up. :) The Daredevil fandom is full of creative and generous people from all over the world and they all have passionate ideas on how to help. From website designing to language translators to artists and writers and data analysts and video editors and more, the diversity of strengths has been a joy. Operation Napkins was courtesy of another fan who simply wanted to help make a difference. Since not everybody is on Twitter, we've created a Discord server to help keep us on the same page where we organise, schedule, brainstorm. When something is lacking or needs attention, someone will speak up and we’ll collectively address it.

Phyllis: If anything, the sudden and increased success of the petition has ultimately been a boon for the campaign. There’s been coordination between the campaign and the petition as far as making sure the messaging and goals are consistent between both. We know that not everyone who signs the petition will be interested in doing more, but we hope that the volume of people it’s reaching means we can attract enough fans who DO want to participate and spread the word about #SaveDaredevil. Either way, we feel lucky.


Mithra: What is most common misconception people are having about the whole cancellation? There's a big belief that the show will eventually come back in some form on another streaming service (ie. Disney+)


Kristina: I live in Los Angeles and it shocked me how many of my friends who are industry professionals - people working at different studios, in effects houses - said “Don’t worry, it’ll go to Disney +.” That is a massive misconception.

Leslie: I think the assumption that Disney is responsible for all of these cancellations as part of a master plan to stream the Netflix Marvel shows on Disney+ is the most pervasive belief, one we think is ill-informed.

When it was announced that Disney-owned content would eventually be pulled from Netflix, that was in reference to Disney's theatrical distribution deal, which is separate from their Marvel Television deal. Ted Sarandos from Netflix has made it very clear that the Marvel shows were theirs to cancel, a stance confirmed by Marvel TV's Jeph Loeb and Joe Quesada. The Disney+ misconception also flies in the face of Disney's stated mission for the service to provide family-friendly fare, fueling the belief that Daredevil and company will resurface on Disney+ as rebooted, cleaned up versions of themselves, another unconfirmed rumor.

That being said, we have some reason to hope. Kevin Mayer, Disney’s top exec overseeing their direct-to-consumer platforms have stated that reviving the Marvel Netflix shows is a possibility. Additionally, whenever the Marvel-Netflix divorce is written about there is no mention of the pending Fox-Disney deal that would leave Disney with a majority stake in Hulu, a streamer we believe would be a perfect home for a TV-MA Daredevil, as Disney intends to make it a part of their "international trilogy of services".

Christine: Even before the show was cancelled, people had no idea why we were running a campaign to get the show renewed. Fans were either treating season four as a forgone conclusion or were convinced that Disney was going to pull all the shows and put them on Disney+. It’s been quite eye-opening, albeit depressing, to see just how fervently people will hold to their views with absolutely nothing but hunches to support them. We’re still dealing with this dilemma. People either don’t know that the show has been canceled, have completely given up, or are still assuming Marvel was behind the cancellation and that these shows are simply being moved.

Phyllis: It’s been a very interesting learning experience for all of us because unlike other traditional show cancellations, where their biggest problem is shopping their show to another network, our biggest issue is actually educating our own fandom about the particulars of this cancellation and trying to explain why we believe our actions could make a difference.


Mithra: There are going to be people who don't believe any of this effort will make a difference. What do you have to say to them?


Shelby: Doing nothing will definitely guarantee nothing gets done.

Kristina: Why not try? Who are we hurting? The Sense8 fans were told there was no way they could make a difference but they managed to get a 2 hour wrap up special.

Ayesha: As another team member for #SaveDaredevil has said, you lose 100% of the shots you don't take. If none of this works, at least we are able to let the cast and crew know what their work means to us. That what they achieved on this show has meaning to their fans. And what if it works? We'd never find out if we didn't even try.

Leslie: They might be right, but they also might be wrong. I'm an adult and the best judge of how I should spend my time, so instead of throwing my hands up in despair, I'd rather raise my voice and fight for something that I love, no matter how slim our chances. At the very least, all of the actors and writers, directors, producers, and assistants will know they created something that wound up being a profound inspiration to countless people, and that their dedication will not be forgotten.

Christine: Honestly, with this cancellation being as weird as it was… You just don’t know. On the one hand, we know this show is dead if Marvel and Disney don’t make some serious and rather aggressive moves to resuscitate it. We’re talking money on the table – probably lots of it – deals being made, lawyers hashing it out. It’s not unlikely that they can’t even begin to act until all of the Marvel shows have been officially cancelled. However, all the reasons people give for why this won’t happen are not reasons why they can’t happen. That’s an important distinction. Disney is a behemoth. If they want to do something with these shows, of course they can. This is about persuading them that they should. Will that be successful? Who knows? But it’s worth a try.

Anna: Showing only a little bit of support is easy, and the cast and crew have worked so hard to give us something so unique and masterful - it’s only fair to give them something in return. To see the cast and crew reacting to and sending messages to us is still unbelievable to me. I’m starting to think one tweet CAN make a difference.

Phyllis: We have a strong belief that if enough people show up and make an effort, even just the smallest one - which by the way, is signing the petition, an action that takes less than a minute - we can still make some waves. That’s how much this show means to us. That’s how much the work of the cast, crew, and creative team have meant to us. On that point alone, we think this is a fight worth taking to the end. But to be very clear, everyone behind the scenes on this campaign is participating with their eyes wide open. We understand there are factors here completely out of our control. But we’re also customers. We’re consumers of the content these platforms are putting out. If we can’t make an appeal based on passion, we can still make one based on economics. And we’re willing to take our dollars to the company who isn’t going to leave money on the table.

Van: We've heard from those people regularly and some of them seem pretty angry. Some consistently show up just to dig at us for doing this, but if they get to spend their time telling us we're wrong, we get to spend our time doing what we think is right. We understand the politics behind the scenes, we understand the challenge, but the cast and crew deserve to know they're worth fighting for. Comics taught me ‘one person can make a difference.’ That’s what we’re doing, trying to make a difference. There’s a chance we'll lose this fight, but we're going to go down swinging.


Mithra: Here's a tough question. If the show does come back, but it's a reboot to fit in the MCU... will you watch it? Will you continue your efforts?


Shelby: I will always fight for this cast and this version of this show, but this show also made me a Matt Murdock fan. So even though a reboot might hurt, I’ve gotta support Matt Murdock too.

Kristina: I promise you, if the show is rebooted and/or recast, I will not watch it. Period. That would be a tremendous slap in the face to the original show’s cast, crew and creative team. As far as continuing our efforts, I think we’d need to take a serious look at what our options would be and go from there.

Leslie: I would not watch a reboot that does not include the original cast, and preferably Erik Oleson at the helm. The people who made the show we love are the people we are fighting for.

Christine: Our campaign is for this show, with this cast and crew. We know they’ve all been released from their contracts, but pretty much of all of them seem like they would jump at the chance to get back to work, so if the powers that be will allow that to happen, it can.

Personally, I think it would be a grave mistake to try to reboot this show. As a Daredevil completist, I’m not going to say I would never watch another iteration of the character, but I highly doubt anything else would come close to this show in terms of quality. If this show can’t be revived, I would honestly prefer that they shelve Daredevil for the foreseeable future than try some new take on the character. The viewership and accolades for this particular show can not be replicated by simply doing some other show based on the same character. That would completely ignore the magic that stemmed from the combination of this particular cast and crew.

Anna: A rebooted show would lose all the magic and would be counterproductive at this moment in time. It also would be insulting to the very talented actors involved, as well as Erik Oleson, who did an outstanding job creating this season - we deserve to see more of his work. Jeph Loeb mentioned they had plans for 3 more seasons, so the ideas are there. The adventure isn’t finished. There are so many stories left to tell with this cast!

Van: I've learned to never say never. If I had stuck to my resolve to not watch another live action Daredevil after the Affleck film, I would have missed this series. I wouldn't be here now fighting for it. But if a reboot showed up tomorrow, I wouldn't have any interest in it because I'm too deeply invested in this iteration of Daredevil, with this cast and this crew. Maybe someday, but not now. For now, I can’t imagine any reboot being able to do what this series has done for Daredevil, the character, without Charlie Cox playing Matt Murdock, without Vincent D’Onofrio playing Wilson Fisk, etc. This was something special and it earned every bit of my love and respect.


Mithra: So, congratulations on all this success, I hope it continues with its momentum and more people get onboard. I see you are now focusing on a writing campaign to Disney's Kevin Mayer. One of your mottos is "Worth the Wait" and from some online reports, you may have to wait two years to even find out if DD will be back in any form. Do you find that wait daunting, or does it excite you? Thanks for your time everyone. And good luck!


Shelby: 2+ years is nothing these days when it comes to waiting on new seasons of shows and for THIS show, I’ll gladly wait.

Kristina: One of the articles written about us commented that we were unusually knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the business interests involved. We realize that there is no way this gets resolved quickly. We don’t expect to hear anything soon. But you know what I would love? For Marvel to simply say, “We hear you. We’re working on it.”

Leslie: I think waiting more than two and a half years for season three conditioned us to be patient, and a quality production with talent like this is more than worth the wait!

Christine: As long as there’s some sliver of hope, I don’t mind the wait at all. We’ve waited before, and people also tend to forget that people wait for movie sequels all the time, often for two, three years or more. No one considers that strange, and I’d hate for Marvel and Disney to not bother trying to reassemble the team just because some time has gone by. In fact, considering how season three ended, it would be relatively easy to craft a season four (or a renumbered season one with the same team) that would be highly accessible to newcomers while still paying off for people who’ve been on board from the start. I think that’s something for Marvel to think about.

Anna: We already waited 2.5 years for season 3. I think that Daredevil fans are patient and loyal enough to wait for a potential season 4. Like Kevin Mayer said, this is a high quality show. Quality takes time, and I’m more than willing to wait another 2+ years to see this very talented cast and creative team to return.

Ayesha: I'm a very patient fan, I have no problem waiting 2 years if it means I get this same cast and crew back.

Van: If HBO’s Deadwood can get a roundup movie after a 12 year cancellation, I have hopes for us getting something sooner than that. When we started this campaign we planned for the long game. We’re scheduling out quarterly events. But if Marvel or Disney want to announce tomorrow they’re working on something to reunite our cast and crew, we’ll adapt to that too.

Phyllis: Honestly, it was a relief to hear a timetable, so for now, no, we don’t mind the wait at all. As others have said, we’ve waited longer between seasons of these shows, and if it takes a little more time to get everyone back at the table and figure out how to make this work, we are willing to be patient. In the meantime, we have plans on how to keep the momentum going on the campaign, and we’ll continue to rally and encourage the fandom to keep making noise about #SaveDaredevil.

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(c) 2019 Kuljit Mithra and Save Daredevil
Daredevil:The Man Without Fear
http://www.manwithoutfear.com
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