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Has the Kingpin's empire been permanently destroyed?
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Forrest
Lowlife


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible.


See, I disagree. Kingpin is definitely the greatest villain DD has ever faced and when properly written, he is a fascinating character. Still, it is entirely possible to seperate Fisk from the book. Heck, I wouldn't be mad at all if Fisk was killed by a great storyteller in a great story. Maybe that would help with this silly notion that DD is Miller's book. It's not. Miller was simply a great DD writer, but not signficantly better than Nocenti, Lee, Chichester, Loeb, Brubaker Razz, etc.

The Kingpin can be eliminated, replaced or ignored at no inherit consequence.
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rgj
Hardcore


Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that we disagree.

rgj
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Former DD scribe D.G. Chicester supposedly contemplated a radical change for Wilson Fisk: transforming him into a gang member, a hoodlum with his own "posse," so to speak. Would any of you welcome such a change? Karl Kesel, meanwhile, once proposed that Matt become an office-holder, perhaps a city councilman or mayor. What a riveting story that would be - Murdock, the public servant, waging a valiant struggle (in both his guises) against Fisk, the thug and racketeer!


DD is not in a position to run for public office at this time, he first has to get his life in order and beat the charges laid against him. That idea could be workable in a year or two, but not now.

As for the Kingpin that is not a bad idea. First however the Kingpin needs time to beat the charges made against him and recover from his wound, so we shouldn't see him for a while. After that the Kingpin has to really low key, rebuild his empire from scratch, busting heads on the street and building things from the ground up. that could be very interesting sub plots. While DD is busy dealing with super powered freaks and psychos like Purple man, Typhod Mary, Bushwacker, Mr. Hyde, etc or other crime bosses making major plays (Silke's dad or a new Masked Marauder for example) the Kingpin is fighting tooth and nail to rebuild his empire from the ground up, one tiny step at a time.
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The Overlord
Paradiso


Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
rgj wrote:
Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible.


See, I disagree. Kingpin is definitely the greatest villain DD has ever faced and when properly written, he is a fascinating character. Still, it is entirely possible to seperate Fisk from the book. Heck, I wouldn't be mad at all if Fisk was killed by a great storyteller in a great story. Maybe that would help with this silly notion that DD is Miller's book. It's not. Miller was simply a great DD writer, but not signficantly better than Nocenti, Lee, Chichester, Loeb, Brubaker Razz, etc.

The Kingpin can be eliminated, replaced or ignored at no inherit consequence.


I don't think DD fans would very happy if Kingpin were killed off, no matter what. Good villains are hard to come by and killing them can be dangerous. Besides I think Stephan's has potenial with a sub plot with Fisk as a low level gang member trying to rebuild his empire from the ground up. Plus if Kingpin, there is always the danger that someone will just bring him back later.

But you are correct, people have to stop recyling Miller's storylines and start developing new storylines of their own. Miller did an important thing for DD he changed the tone of the book, but just recyling his storylines is lazy.
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