Daredevil Message Board

[james castle]

Okay, so here's the oath. Well, the one I took anyway.

[Murdock Bell]

[Murdock Bell]

Now, again, it's pretty clear that if Murdock had actual integrity and a sense of ethics in his capacity as a lawyer, he'd quit being a vigilante.

However, it's clear that Matt truly believes that his own personal code of justice supercedes the law, and that repeatedly and flagrantly breaking the law is justified in pursuit of it.

Since that's the case, he should quit being a lawyer. He doesn't, because, like most people, he's flawed, and believes he does more good as both a lawyer and hero whether the latter makes a mockery of the former or not.

However, let's not kid ourselves--his dual identity is a flaw, and one with a hypocritical dimension at that.

[james castle]

Well, I guess we should track down the New York oath (if there is one). The regulations you list say nothing other than that a lawyer should be nice. That's a far cry from upholding the law.

As for the Florida oath. Wow. On one hand, I guess it's a oath from a Southern state so I shouldn't be too surprised by it's...content.

I think there's a good chance that the New York oath would be closer to a Canadian (British) oath insofar as New York, as a state, has always been closer to Canada in terms of legal traditions. Remember when New York was trying to stop the south from having slaves and being otherwise not very good at having just legal institutions? Ah, good times. Citing the Floria bar oath is almost irrelevant given the US's state by state structure and New York vs. Florida history.

On the other hand, New York is in the states and givin' the countries behaviour as of late maybe all their oaths are quite different from ours. I think we have something against locking people up for no reason and torturing them. You guys may not have that bit.

Of course this is all one big sidetrack. The original point was that you listened to too much Smith and Joey Q and didn't read the comic enough. I'm still open to you giving me an example from the comic where Matt expresses mixed feelings about being a lawyer and Daredevil at the same time. You haven't so far. Perhaps because you can't.

Focus on the comics. That's my advice to you. It's much more fun then momerizing Joe Fridays.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Murdock Bell]

[james castle]

Sigh.

Two things:

1. This debate has not been about "respecting" the law, but "upholding" it. Go reread it if you don't believe me. I've said lawyers don't uphold the law. Nothing you've brought up (except for the Florida stuff (which doesn't count because people don't even have the right to vote there)) comes close to challanging what I've said in that regard.

2. Frank Miller talking about the comic isn't the comic. I want an example from the text.

This debate is almost over as it's making me sad.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Murdock Bell]

[james castle]

Frank Miller's word is not the end all be all when it comes to DD. Especially not his word as spoken in the 90s. Did you read Man Without Fear? I'm going to assume you didn't so just let me tell you that there is much debate as to whether it's cannon DD or not. Elektra is a giggling psychopath and Matt kills somebody. I love Frank Miller's work. Mostly because he's unpredictable and a little crazy. After Dark Knight Returns most people think Frank is the end all be all of Batman mythology. Strikes Again and All-Stars tell a different tale. Same with DD. His 80s DD is cannon. His later takes on DD? not so much.

As for the legal stuff (sigh, I can't believe I'm even arguing this with what is almost certainly a high schooler): the NY stuff doesn't count because 1) it's not an oath and 2) it doesn't say what you think it says. The Florida stuff doesn't count because NY is more like Toronto than it is like Florida. Don't tell me you disagree with that statement.

Okay, now I'm done. Run along little one. I assume your copy of Clerks II is getting cold.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Murdock Bell]

[Francesco]

As soon as you guys are finished discussing about what a lawyer is and what isn't in regard to "upholding teh law" (which his utterly useless, considering that we should focus on what Murdock thinks of himself as a lawyer), you can pick up DD #191 ("the 80's DD", not MWOF) and read that Daredevil clearly states why he decided to become a lawyer, at the same time explaining what he thinks about upholding laws and rules.

[Francesco]

[james castle]

[Gloria]

[Neilan]

Since we have gotten so off-topic.

At my daughter's Middle School (6th-8th grade), when the kids disagree with each other, they get really personal and many times vicious, hurling insults and curses like it was a matter of life and death. I'm proud that my kid is one of a small percentage who doesn't behave that way. She believes that you should attack the argument, not the arguer, and that that is how her peers will behave once they reach the maturity of adulthood.

I think I'll steer her away from this board so she doesn't see how some supposed adults really act.
_________________
It's never too late to have a happy childhood!

[james castle]

Sigh. Yes, I throw a couple barbs in which my argument (although they are usually of the "that's a stupid things to say" variety). But it's people like N and MB who end the argument by appealing to form rather than substance. After failing entirely to deal with my substantive points (still waiting for that example boys) they break down into attacking my argument style.

It so quickly goes from "you're wrong" to "you're mean". The later only ever comes up once there's been a complete failure to show the former.

As for the adult/child thing. "Everyone should be candy sweet nice to each other all the time". Grow up kids.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?