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Blind Alley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Lyon, France
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 Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: Daredevil Battlin Jack Murdock #4 Talkback (Spoilers) |
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Well, this mini is over and I liked it very much.
The art was nice and detailed with a cartoony touch but not too exagerated (as opposed to the Gorilla-DD in Father).
And the writing really put me into Jack's head.
I didn't expect that mini to be so good !
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Marvel Knight
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have the fourth issue yet but I'm enjoying the mini as well. And I agree about the art (mind you, I liked the exaggerated look of Father as well lol).
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Big news everyone! JC (me) read (well, kinda) something he's going to bash.
I dropped by the comic shop and flipped through (and read big bunches of) #4. Now, I haven't been following the series so maybe there's some "emotional impact" or something about the entire thing that everyone is enjoying. That said: Jack knowing that Matt has...errr...the ability to fight (?) and that effecting why he threw the fight is a huge, huge mistake.
Original version: Jack wants to show his son that it's important to fight and to stand up for what you believe in so he doesn't throw the fight.
"New" version: Jack, while in a boxing ring, fighting, somehow "realizes" that his blind son can fight and beat people up (how is this possible? he thinks Matt's blind. blind. the leap in logic he'd have to make is unthinkable. "well, my son is blind but somehow he can run around beating people up with his cane...that he has because he is blind"). Then, realizing that Matt is strong....he decides to also be strong because...Matt is strong? What?
Let's leave the origin alone.
Jack being in a relationship with Josie is also nuts. Dear Marvel writers: not every dot has to connect to each other. It gets ridiculous.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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blacktyphoid
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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From James Castle:
Jack being in a relationship with Josie is also nuts. Dear Marvel writers: not every dot has to connect to each other. It gets ridiculous.
Good point. The longer DD's been around, the more revisionist his origins become as new writers tack on their own pieces and attempt to connect them to the existing continuity.
Example I:
Writer Joe Kelly connects Typhoid Mary's origin to Frank Miller's revisionist DD origin in the Man WIthout Fear Miniseries. Therefore, making the two characters forever attached and intertwined. This development has nothing to do with the previously compelling storylines involving the two characters.
Example II:
In Joe Quesada's "Father" miniseries, he showcases the life of the man young Matt saves. Like Typhoid Mary, he turns out to be another twisted, mentally disturbed person that is connected to DD's origin. Why must everyone associated with DD's origin be horrible?
Example III:
Castle's highlight of Josie and Matt's dad.
All in all, it can get a bit much.
That said, stay tuned for a mini-series about the life of Matt Murdock's half-sibling, the child born from Josie and Jack's tryst.
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose there had to be some reason Josie had enough money to own a bar in Hell's Kitchen, so we got the retrofit that she won a bundle betting on Jack against the odds. Meh.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Darediva wrote: | | I suppose there had to be some reason Josie had enough money to own a bar in Hell's Kitchen, so we got the retrofit that she won a bundle betting on Jack against the odds. Meh. |
There didn't "have" to be a reason for Josie to have money. She just could have had money. Tying it to Jack is, again, ridiculous.
As for the other two continuity shifts listed above: they didn't happen. I'm more than happy to ignore the almost insulting Typhoid stuff. As far as I'm concerned that was little more than a pathetic attempt on Joe Kelly's part to piggyback on not one but two superior writers. The most hilarious thing is that by trying to gain credibility by "building" on Miller and Nocenti's stories he ends up ruining them both. So as far as I'm concerned it didn't happen.
As for Joey Q's opus...whatever. That didn't happen either souly on the grounds that it was a stupid idea.
That's the great thing about comics, you can enjoy the good stuff and just ignore the crap.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: |
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DAREDEVIL: BROTHER
Written by JOE QUESADA
Story by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO & ZEB WELLS
Pencils and Cover by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO
Several years ago, Josie Barrington met a whiskey-soaked, washed-up boxer named Jack Murdock. Nine months later, after Jack was killed by the mob, Josie gave birth to a baby boy.
Unable to deal with parenthood, Josie gave up her child, Mike, for adoption.
Now, Matt Murdock will uncover a mystery as Josie is found murdered. And what connection does Mike Barrington have to Lawrence Cranston AND Wilson Fisk AND Elektra's cousin's sister-in-law?
32 PGS./Card Stock Cover/Parental Advisory $3.99
(YES, this is a joke, just in case...)
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Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com |
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Marvel Knight
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Kingston, ON, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuljit Mithra wrote: | DAREDEVIL: BROTHER
Written by JOE QUESADA
Story by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO & ZEB WELLS
Pencils and Cover by CARMINE DI GIANDOMENICO
Several years ago, Josie Barrington met a whiskey-soaked, washed-up boxer named Jack Murdock. Nine months later, after Jack was killed by the mob, Josie gave birth to a baby boy.
Unable to deal with parenthood, Josie gave up her child, Mike, for adoption.
Now, Matt Murdock will uncover a mystery as Josie is found murdered. And what connection does Mike Barrington have to Lawrence Cranston AND Wilson Fisk AND Elektra's cousin's sister-in-law?
32 PGS./Card Stock Cover/Parental Advisory $3.99 |
As funny as that is, it is not far off from a book I could see happening... Well, except for the involvement of Elektra's cousin's sister-in-law. lmao
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | ...So as far as I'm concerned it didn't happen.
As for Joey Q's opus...whatever. That didn't happen either souly on the grounds that it was a stupid idea.
That's the great thing about comics, you can enjoy the good stuff and just ignore the crap. |
Yes, this is pretty much my feeling about the Typhoid Mary "origins" , and anything happening in "Father".
I dream of an alternate universe where Karen Page lives and is a sucessful radio host in California, Glorianna O'Breen has retired from her job at the Bugle and lives now in Innisfree (where she runs the local Photo Studio/store), and Heather Glenn married Rico and hey are the toast of New York high society's parties.
| Kuljit Mithra wrote: | DAREDEVIL: BROTHER
Written by JOE QUESADA
(...)Now, Matt Murdock will uncover a mystery as Josie is found murdered. And what connection does Mike Barrington have to Lawrence Cranston AND Wilson Fisk AND Elektra's cousin's sister-in-law? |
Bwah-Hah-hah!!  
If the story was written by Giffen and De Matteis, illustrated by Kevin Maguire and had (via a Marvel/DC crossover) the appearance of Guy Gardner, I'd sign for it... Otherwise...
...Otherwise I hope it is really just a joke (shudders!)
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | Darediva wrote: | | I suppose there had to be some reason Josie had enough money to own a bar in Hell's Kitchen, so we got the retrofit that she won a bundle betting on Jack against the odds. Meh. |
There didn't "have" to be a reason for Josie to have money. She just could have had money. Tying it to Jack is, again, ridiculous.
As for the other two continuity shifts listed above: they didn't happen. I'm more than happy to ignore the almost insulting Typhoid stuff. As far as I'm concerned that was little more than a pathetic attempt on Joe Kelly's part to piggyback on not one but two superior writers. The most hilarious thing is that by trying to gain credibility by "building" on Miller and Nocenti's stories he ends up ruining them both. So as far as I'm concerned it didn't happen.
As for Joey Q's opus...whatever. That didn't happen either souly on the grounds that it was a stupid idea.
That's the great thing about comics, you can enjoy the good stuff and just ignore the crap. |
Then, just ignore what you consider crap. I was just trying to be a little sarcastic in my assessment of *why* Josie might have been included in the story. Evidently it didn't read that way to you. I certainly wasn't condoning the retcon, just giving a BS speculation. Pardon my attempted humour.
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Alice
Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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blacktyphoid
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: |
I dream of an alternate universe where Karen Page lives and is a sucessful radio host in California, Glorianna O'Breen has retired from her job at the Bugle and lives now in Innisfree (where she runs the local Photo Studio/store), and Heather Glenn married Rico and hey are the toast of New York high society's parties. |
Ahh yes, Glorianna O'Breen. Black Widow notwithstanding, Glorianna was perhaps my favourite DD girl friend. Given her sweet Irish brogue (touchingly scripted by Dennis O'Neil), stern independence (she didn't take any guff from ol' Matt!), striking yet very casual beauty and manner and her family's rather nefarious connections to her Irish homeland, Glorianna was a very complex, fascinating and, might I add, sensual character. Even the sound of her name sets apart from all the others. Her presence was too short-lived. Even worse, it was a shame that writer Chicester brought her back into the comic many years later (without that unique Irish brogue!) in a horrible fill-in job only to have her murdered in a roadside cafe for no good reason near the end of the volume 1 series. What a waste!
Dear friends, for those of you unfamilar with Glorianna, it'll take a while to get there in the Essentials series, but try to hang in long enough for the stories that were created by Dennis O'Neil and artist William Johnson. They were in the early 200s of the first series. That writer/artist team was rather short-lived and, I think, because their work was sandwiched in between the two Miller periods, was extremely underrated.
Btw, does anyone know whatever happened to artist William Johnson? I'd sure like to know.
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| blacktyphoid wrote: | | Ahh yes, Glorianna O'Breen. (...) Her presence was too short-lived. Even worse, it was a shame that writer Chicester brought her back into the comic many years later (without that unique Irish brogue!) in a horrible fill-in job only to have her murdered in a roadside cafe for no good reason near the end of the volume 1 series. What a waste! |
Indeed, I think that, apart from what you have stated so well, Glorianna had many points of interest to be a recurring presence in the DD (in the same way that Natasha in no longer Matt's girlfriend, but it's always interesting to see her dropping for a visit). Among those points, she was a comitted press photographer and worked for the Bugle (like a guy named Peter Parker), and teamed well with Ben Urich in "Born Again", her Irish, hum... connections could be also a source of new stories.
Not to mention her relationship with BOTH Matt and Foggy (O Boy!). Her murder, as in Karen Page's case, was cheap fare to sell out just an issue... when their being alive would have been food for many a good plot or sub-plot in DD
We make could make an O'Breen Appreciation Society, couldn't we?
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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blacktyphoid
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
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| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Count me in, Glore. Where do I sign?
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Total garbage. And, predictable garbage at that (read my thoughts on the issue 3 thread where it's obvious that Josie will bet on Jack).
What a major disappointment. Marvel continues to add crap to DD's origin.
And, Stick's cameos throughout were as annoying as the unnecessary cameo of Boba Fett in Star Wars (that's right, I'm not calling it "A New Hope")
It's also ridiculous that Jack got a look at his son's black eye. Predictable (that they would do this) and ridiculous. jc's post is on the money. This mini totally changes the subtext of of the origin and underminds Jack Murdock's (and Maggie too) character. It's no longer Jack "don't use your fists son, be better than me" Murdock, they've changed it to Jack "that's right, go see my son so he can kick your ass" Murdock.
Truly, (like I said when I complained about the radar) the powers that be don't know the foundation of this character. They don't know Daredevil. That includes Joey Q. Who continues to be a monkey.
Be grateful jc. I actually paid for and possess these issues.
rgj
p.s. Thank God for Vertigo Comics. |
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underworlderZer0
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. And here I thought I enjoyed reading "Battlin' Jack".
I guess I don't take my comics seriously enough.  |
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