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The Board Without Fear!
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Ed Brubaker
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: Your mission for the next month... |
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...is to point out as many places as possible that Mr. Fear actually predates the Scarecrow, and is not a knock-off of him. 
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Your mission for the next month... |
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| Ed Brubaker wrote: | | ...is to point out as many places as possible that Mr. Fear actually predates the Scarecrow, and is not a knock-off of him. |
I want a signed copy of DD#86 for that. |
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Ed Brubaker
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Actually, I think Mr Fear may have come after the Scarecrow. I read somewhere years ago that the Scarecrow was created in the late 60s, but I think they must've meant re-created.
Okay, no mission, I guess.
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Dave Wallace
Paradiso
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1074
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| I think the dates are still closer than people think, though (it seems as though Scarecrow's 1940s appearances were pretty brief and he didn't become a big Bat-villain until his reappearance in the 1960s) - so I think it's a bit unfair to call Mr. Fear a ripoff. |
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Ed Brubaker
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, apparently the "fear gas" element wasn't part of the 40s version of Scarecrow, according to what I've been able to find online. So, it could go either way.
I highly doubt Mr. Fear is a rip-off of a guy who had only been seen twice twenty years earlier. Mr Fear was created because DD was the Man Without Fear, obviously.
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rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Anyone want to comment how Nightwing is a knock-off of Daredevil?
rgj |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Ed Brubaker wrote: | Actually, I think Mr Fear may have come after the Scarecrow. I read somewhere years ago that the Scarecrow was created in the late 60s, but I think they must've meant re-created.
Okay, no mission, I guess. |
But that is incorrect, even though Scarecrow came first, Mr. Fear was the first one to use the fear gas gimmick. In his 3 Golden age appearances Scarecrow did not use fear gas and he only came back in 1967, while Mr. Fear was introduced in 1965 and used fear gas in first appearance.
While Scarecrow was created first, he didn't use the gimmick first, therefore he is not a rip off.
However Jester is a Joker rip off and Owl is a Penguin rip off. |
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Clayton Blind Love
Redemption
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 772
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Okay, I'm geeking out reading this. God, I love my comics!
C.
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the gael
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: |
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I've found this about the golden age scarecrow, and don't know what to think about :
http://my.execpc.com/~icicle/GASCARECROW.html
It is pretty clear that the golden age scarecrow didn't use any chemicals.
but there is little confusion in the middle of the page. It is said that after 2 stories without any fear gaz, scarecrow returned in... 1955 with it.
But the story was said to be " the Brave and the Bold #197 ", and when you look at the top of the page, you can see " 1st Appearance (Silver Age) - Brave and the Bold #197 (April 1983) "
don't know what to think about the site. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However Jester is a Joker rip off and Owl is a Penguin rip off. |
I respectfully disagree, especially about Jester being a Joker rip off. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | Quote: | | However Jester is a Joker rip off and Owl is a Penguin rip off. |
I respectfully disagree, especially about Jester being a Joker rip off. |
How are they different? Besides unlike Mr. Fear/scarecrow thing, Jester and Owl were created when Penguin and Joker were active.
Jester is exactly like Silver Age Joker, while Joker was modernized as a psychopath, Jester more or less stayed the same, so he is a rip off of a version of character that kinda outdated. Heck I'm wondering what makes Jester different from Prankster, Toyman, Trickster, Arcade and a million other B-list "fun is dangerous" types.
Owl might be worse, Owl is exactly like Penguin. A short, fat little guy with an obession for birds. Heck they both became crime boss characters. The only difference is Owl is dumber than Penguin, at least Penguin doesn't need his lawyer to do his thinking for him. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The Overlord wrote: | | Jester is exactly like Silver Age Joker, while Joker was modernized as a psychopath, Jester more or less stayed the same, so he is a rip off of a version of character that kinda outdated. Heck I'm wondering what makes Jester different from Prankster, Toyman, Trickster, Arcade and a million other B-list "fun is dangerous" types. |
Overlord, you know already I have a soft spot for Jester,which I don't regard exactly as a Joker Rip-Off, because Jester is ultimately a frustrated Laurence Olivier (which the Joker isn't) . Plus, he's physically strong and can fence, etc... something that Joker doesn't (I known I won't convince you about that,  , anyway, that's my view on the Jester)
I always thought Arcade had something of his own: the rich-boy who turns to crime just out of boredom is quite different from the gangster who falls into chemicals, gets that clown-face and goes psychotic. Besides, Arcade has those platform shoes (and platform shoes make the man!)
Back to the subject matter. The Mr. Fear that we're currently concerned about is a Lawyer, not a scientist, and he has a more personal relationship with the hero than Batman with the Scarecrow: besides, he seems to have extended his repertoire of recipes beyond the panic-inducing formula (i.e.: The drugs that drive Melvin mad, The gas that makes Matt drowsy, the parfume that makes Lily almost irresistible)
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
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Last edited by Gloria on Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Well said, Gloria. |
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The Overlord
Paradiso
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | The Overlord wrote: | | Jester is exactly like Silver Age Joker, while Joker was modernized as a psychopath, Jester more or less stayed the same, so he is a rip off of a version of character that kinda outdated. Heck I'm wondering what makes Jester different from Prankster, Toyman, Trickster, Arcade and a million other B-list "fun is dangerous" types. |
Overlord, you know already I have a soft spot for Jester,which I don't regard exactly as a Joker Rip-Off, because Jester is ultimately a frustrated Laurence Olivier (which the Joker isn't) . Plus, he's physically strong and can fence, etc... something that Joker doesn't (I known I won't convince you about that, , anyway, that's my view on the Jester) |
You know I can respect that. Everyone has little niche characters for whatever reasons and that is a valid point of view. But me Jester just doesn't that appeal. Likely because I have seen this type of villain a million times before. I'm arguing for the purposes of debate, but I still respect your opinion. Forget even Joker what makes Jester unique or more interesting then say Toyman, Trickster, Prankster, etc. If stories with all those characters came out at the same month, why should a kid spend his money on one and not another. How would Jester appeal to say a comic book fan who isn't a natural DD fan?
Also Joker is very good at fighting, he is lean and fast, faster then Batman. Plus manic strength, he once beat up a convict twice his size.
| Gloria wrote: |
Back to the subject matter. The Mr. Fear that we're currently concerned about is a Lawyer, not a scientist, and he has a more personal relationship with the hero than Batman with the Scarecrow: besides, he seems to have extended his repertoire of recipes beyond the panic-inducing formula (i.e.: The drugs that drive Melvin mad, The gas that makes Matt drowsy, the parfume that makes Lily almost irresistible) |
I guess I shouldn't mention that there was episode of BTAS where Scarecrow invented a drug that takes away people's fears and it made batman act like a psycho through out the whole episode.
There is also the fact that Cranston deduced DD's secret, about a decade before Kingpin did it and about 3 decades before DD was outed. Now at this point I guess almost every DD villain knows his secret, but still villains who know a hero's secret tend to be more dangerous then those who don't know. |
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