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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | | I propose to meld the current "quotes" topic with this one. |
The board software doesn't come with a "merge thread" function... 
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Kuljit Mithra
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely Francesco! I didn't know about the old thread. I'll just move the new stuff over here:
| jumonji wrote: | Okay, I promised myself to try to get some work done, but this is more fun. How about we start a thread of favorite quotes from the comic? There should be thousands to choose from. I can think of a few, but I'll start with this one:
"Let me get this straight. You only see things in outline ... so you decided to put on a costume, run around on rooftops and fight supervillains?"
- Foggy, upon first hearing Matt's explanation of his radar, after finding out that Matt is Daredevil (#353)
I also like Matt's comeback:
"I'm an endless contradiction that'd never stand up to cross-examination, Foggy. Always thought that was part of my charm."
Okay, your turn! |
And there:
| james castle wrote: | | I picked up the third Bru/Lark trade a couple weeks ago and Foggy's line "didn't your sensei tell you not to fight angry?" made me laugh out loud. Great line. |
If Kuljit wants to remove the new thread, that's fine!
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I cannot give the exact quote, as I only have the Spanish language version of the comic. This one comes from the Daredevil-Spiderman miniseries by Paul Jenkins & Phil Winslade.
Context: Fisks wants to hire Matt's services as a lawyer. Matt doesn't want to work for him. Luckily, Foggy is able to dig out a bit of evidence against the Kingpin which will allow Nelson & Murdock to reject the case...
Kingpin: "what are you up to... blackmailing me?"
Murdock: "Of course. We're lawyers, for God's sake!"
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Now this one a serious one. And a personal favourite.
Not just a quote, but a full monologue.
From Ann Nocenti's run in the series, it tackles the subject of Law, and explains why Matt may be not always comfortable with it.
Context: Vol. 1 #290. By the end of the Nocenti run, Matt, who has left behind his previous life, has travelled around America in his masked identity... and ended by loosing the memory of his life as Matt Murdock. While a disoriented, amnesiac "Jack Murdock" wanders around New York, we see that Foggy Nelson fares not much better in his current life without Matt.
Actually, we find him talking to... the office furniture?!:
"You know, Matt, I never really had a mind of my own.
I was headed towards technical law, divorce cases, wills, real estate.
But then I met you.
It was you, Matt, who inspired me to think as law not as a job but as a way to help people.
We did good things together, Matt, we made a good team... didn't we?
Matt? You still listening?
But... But then you went away... and I turned corporate.
I defended corporations which caused accidents which blind little boys...
And you were ashamed of me when you saw what I'd become.
And you.
Glorianna, you were ashamed of me, too.
You went away.
And Me...
I was ashamed of myself
But... I began to look at my shame, and what lawyers like me and the whole legal system had done to the world
I met people who were afraid to let kids play in their yards for fear of being sued if a kid got hurt.
Camps were so afraid of being sued–– I saw them close their lakes down, leaving nowhere for kids to swim...
Life... It was the quality of life we were ruining.
Te cost of a lawyer has risen so high that justice is unaffordable-- Injustice is much cheaper.
I watched as a Civil Rights bill was vetoed by the President...
I watched as reactionaries supressed art and music, even if it meant endangering First Amendment rights...
I watched as armies marched without permission of Congress breaking international law...
I see privacy and Civil Rights vioated in teh name of so-called "Drug War"
And I'm part of it.
Ha, Ha, Ha!
You know that old joke, Matt?
There's two things you neve want to see being made: sausage and the Law.
I'm not making law anymore Matt, I'm just making sausage.
I don't understand what law is anymore.
I need you. I need your light... Your vision.
Matt...*Sigh* I got your license back for you, Matt.
Now all I need is you"
Cheers to Litigious Land!
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I really like that one too. Nocenti was good at that kind of thing, even though I don't really like Nocenti generally.
Here's a very 1964 exchange between Foggy and Karen from the last page of DD #4. Now, don't get me wrong, this isn't exactly good, or deep or anything like that. It's just very, uhm, 1964...
[Foggy and Karen watch Matt walk away]
Foggy: "There goes one of the greatest guys in the world! It sure is a pity he's blind."
Karen: "And yet for some strange reason, I sometimes feel he sees more than any of us! I guess I'm just a silly female!"
A silly female indeed... Oh, come on Karen! 
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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"Born Again" is a treasure trove for DD quotes, but here go some favourites:
Foggy: Matt... How long's he been missing now?
Glorianna: Eleven days. And six hours.
- - - - - - - -
Matt: Okay-- who took the muscles out of my legs?
Sister Maggie: You Idiot.
My Name is Maggie. You're staying here.
- - - - - - - -
Karen: Look, I better go.
Foggy: Back to the guy who punched you? No.
You're coming home with me, Karen.
Karen: No Foggy, you're sweet, but no. Paulo-- He'll kill you. He'll kill both of us.
Foggy: I won't take a no for an answer, Karen. You and me, we're family.
Matt's family.
| jumonji wrote: |
A silly female indeed... Oh, come on Karen! |
So... Very... 1964!!
It didn't end in 1964, tho´: Check this post by Typolad for a moment of rampant mysoginia from the Law partners.
Indeed, one must take some moments in these old comics with a healthy distance... and a bit of humour.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | It didn't end in 1964, tho´: Check this post by Typolad for a moment of rampant mysoginia from the Law partners.
Indeed, one must take some moments in these old comics with a healthy distance... and a bit of humour. |
Oh yeah, I remember that one! And yes, it is funny. It's interesting how old issues of DD sometimes come across as ahead of their time with the relative depth of the female characters (the Black Widow certainly kicks ass, and Karen eventually grows a personality), while there are also some pretty glaring examples of just the opposite. Speaking of Karen, I think it's such a shame that she was killed off. *sigh* Oh well, that's definitely off topic.
Speaking of things that are offensive, here is one of my least favorite quotes, or should I say "rants." Nocenti wrote a lot of good stuff, but some of the most bitter, unsympathetic, and nasty stuff to ever appear in a thought balloon came during her run. Here's Matt thinking to himself as he approaches, and enters, the hospital room of Tyrone (the kid that was blinded by toxic waste):
"Stick taught me, forced me to grab at power. Tyrone... he's resisting! Like he wants to stay helpless! Gotta force him... to save himself! Otherwise... he's just another one of the poor stumbling blinded [...] Gotta do it like Stick did it to me. Sink or Swim. Tyrone's young. He'll adapt. He'll swim [...] There he is, forever sitting in the dark. The subtle humiliation of the blind. Every hospital room lit up but his. A television hangs over the bed, mocking him. He can't ever watch it, but it watches him. The constant mockery, the pity from the sighted -- all the things that made me conquer my blindness. He doesn't even know someone entered the room. I would have known -- the change in air currents, the increase of heat, tiny vibrations, the outlines my radar shows me -- so many ways to see more than the sighted! To keep from playing the fool. [...] He's oblivious. Just like I used to be. I could walk right up and slap him. The panic. The confusion. Total helplessness."
And the rest of the issue (#254) continues in much the same way...
The first time I read that, I was really put off by it. When Matt says that he could have just walked in and slapped him (Tyrone), you almost get the feeling that he wanted to slap him! There were several instances during Nocenti's run where I got the strong feeling that Matt really looked down on "regular" blind people in a way that, to me anyway, felt completely out of character. I mean, compare his feelings and reactions to Tyrone to those he feels towards Willie Lincoln in issue #47. So completely different!
I guess I should end on a positive note, with a quote I actually like. And this one is a definite classic, from the end of the first issue of Born Again:
"I never would have connected it to you. Nothing about it said gangster -- until this. It was a nice piece of work Kingpin. You shouldn't have signed it."
Love it! So cool... 
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="jumonji"] | Gloria wrote: | It didn't end in 1964, tho´: Check this post by Typolad for a moment of rampant mysoginia from the Law partners.
Indeed, one must take some moments in these old comics with a healthy distance... and a bit of humour. |
Gotta love when females* get all pissed off at the minimum sign of a generalization in their regards (no matter how auto-ironic, slight, or absurdely exaggerated on purpose it was).
* (I hate myself) |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Francesco wrote: | Gotta love when females* get all pissed off at the minimum sign of a generalization in their regards (no matter how auto-ironic, slight, or absurdely exaggerated on purpose it was).
* (I hate myself) |
Gotta love it when males think that females are pissed off, when they are really just finding the whole thing a little amusing. 
No, seriously, I don't really find the misogyny bit offensive. I'm certainly happy that women get more respect these days, but reading early DD doesn't bother me at all. I am, as I mentioned, MUCH more offended by the Nocenti passage quoted above, and that one doesn't even in any way apply to me personally.
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Gotta love it when males think that females are pissed off, when they are really just finding the whole thing a little amusing. |
In fact, I quite liked seeing young Debbie as a woman worried about poverty and hunger in the world... Though her later portrait by O'Neil wasn't consistent with that
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
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Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Here's another post from that same blog. Although this one kind of objectifies men as well... 
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Francesco
Underboss
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
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You know what really should be offensive of that page?
The fact that it is suggested that Debbie goes to a protest not specifically because she believes in it, but because "one has to stand for something" and in order "not to be a vegetable", with little regard to the cause she should be supporting.
One goes to a march because it's "trendy". Go figure. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Another favourite from "Born Again". Wilson Fisk in his "inspirational speech" to Nuke. The Kingpin at his most cynical (but brilliant!):
"...I shall be honest with you. There are many who oppose me.
I am under constant scrutiny by the police. I am, in the strictest definition of the law, a criminal.
I know this startles you. But, as I said--
So much has changed. America's enemies have grown so strong that our boys die in Asian Jungles--
--And our people will not honor them...
...And it tortures me that the noble concept of free enterprise-- the crowning triumph of our forefathers-- has been murdered by endless, corrosive legislation.
To simply keep some shadow of that dream alive I must... must break the law.
... excuse me... I..."
Why, Wilson is sure one hell of an actor!
And the "noble concept of free enterprise" in his lips, it cracks em every time I read it!
| jumonji wrote: | | There were several instances during Nocenti's run where I got the strong feeling that Matt really looked down on "regular" blind people in a way that, to me anyway, felt completely out of character. I mean, compare his feelings and reactions to Tyrone to those he feels towards Willie Lincoln in issue #47. So completely different! |
I suppose the bit with Tyrone was a bit of Frank Miller's fault: he dropped in his run the suggestion that Matt's enhanced senses and radar were not the result of his being exposed to radiation, but something that he could have developed all the same... Does that imply that anyone with proper training can have the same "powers" Matt has? Maybe... And possibly Nocenti was exploring that concept... Still, as you say, this sounds, yes, a bit hard/negative on blind people... in other DD issues blindness is regarded very differently.
You have mentioned the Willie Lincoln story, and then there was another story where most everybody in New York went blind, and it was Daredevil and actual blind people that were able to cope with the crisis, and help solving it (as they were used /experienced to live without sight).
| jumonji wrote: |
Speaking of Karen, I think it's such a shame that she was killed off. *sigh* Oh well, that's definitely off topic. |
But definitely in-topic here
| Francesco wrote: | You know what really should be offensive of that page?
The fact that it is suggested that Debbie goes to a protest not specifically because she believes in it, but because "one has to stand for something" and in order "not to be a vegetable", with little regard to the cause she should be supporting.
One goes to a march because it's "trendy". Go figure. |
I must say that I didn't get that reading from her remark myself. More than an in-depth explanation of her motives to attend a demonstration, I understood that Debbie was just teasing her over-anxious, over-worried boyfriend ... However, if the writer intended it as you perceive it, yes it would be a frivolous motive to join a cause (However, I stick to the notion that the Debbie Harris of these old stories was a really decent person).
Still, I have to admit that I probably didn't pay as much attention as I should to what Debbie was saying in that pannel. I Confess I was much more flabbergasted by the following bit of dialogue:
Foggy: "I love you, blast it! I want to marry you" But--!!"
Matt: "Sorry partner! You're not my type!"
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
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Francesco
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Another favourite from "Born Again". Wilson Fisk in his "inspirational speech" to Nuke. The Kingpin at his most cynical (but brilliant!) |
Yeah, well said. And, man, isn't it so actual nowadays. The whole "our boys" militaristic pseudo-patriotic stuff.
In that issue, the reader is shown, in different moments, Kingpin and Captain America in a similar pose: holding the American flag.
But the visual effect is different. Kingpin (if I recall correctly) is shown looking theatrically down while doing it. |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
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Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | | Another favourite from "Born Again". Wilson Fisk in his "inspirational speech" to Nuke. The Kingpin at his most cynical (but brilliant!) |
I won't quote the whole speech, but yeah, that's gold. I think what's so menacing about the Kingpin is how real he is. It's hard to imagine Wilbur - sorry, Stilt-man - running around town, but the kind of evil that Fisk represents exists in real life. And the monologues that various writers have given him are often wonderfully creepy.
| Gloria wrote: | | jumonji wrote: | | There were several instances during Nocenti's run where I got the strong feeling that Matt really looked down on "regular" blind people in a way that, to me anyway, felt completely out of character. I mean, compare his feelings and reactions to Tyrone to those he feels towards Willie Lincoln in issue #47. So completely different! |
I suppose the bit with Tyrone was a bit of Frank Miller's fault: he dropped in his run the suggestion that Matt's enhanced senses and radar were not the result of his being exposed to radiation, but something that he could have developed all the same... Does that imply that anyone with proper training can have the same "powers" Matt has? Maybe... And possibly Nocenti was exploring that concept... Still, as you say, this sounds, yes, a bit hard/negative on blind people... in other DD issues blindness is regarded very differently.
You have mentioned the Willie Lincoln story, and then there was another story where most everybody in New York went blind, and it was Daredevil and actual blind people that were able to cope with the crisis, and help solving it (as they were used /experienced to live without sight). |
Yes, it's because the whole "blindness issue" has been regarded so differently in others issues, that I was a little put off by Nocenti's take on it. I wouldn't blame Miller though. I see what you're saying, with his partial reinterpration of the origin of the senses, but it's Matt's attitude towards Tyrone that I have a problem with. It's Matt's idea of what happens to Tyrone if he can't develop superpowers of his own, the idea that blindness would inherently be a pitiful and humiliating state. It just feels out of character.
| Gloria wrote: | | jumonji wrote: |
Speaking of Karen, I think it's such a shame that she was killed off. *sigh* Oh well, that's definitely off topic. |
But definitely in-topic here
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Yeah, I read some of the posts in that thread. Maybe it needs to be brought back from the dead as well. It wouldn't do much good as far as Karen is concerned, but it might be therapeutic. Man, I really didn't like the Guardian Devil arc...
| Gloria wrote: |
Foggy: "I love you, blast it! I want to marry you" But--!!"
Matt: "Sorry partner! You're not my type!" |
One of my favorite passages from Volume 2 is the "superhero intervention" scene from the first issue of the King of Hell's kitchen arc. A perfect marriage of the dead-serious and the hysterically funny:
Luke Cage: Murdock.
Matt: So, who do we have...?
We have Peter Parker, We have Luke Cage, We have Doctor Stephen Strange. And we have Reed Richards.
Anyone else?
Luke Cage: Nah, just us.
Matt: No avengers? No X-men?
Luke Cage: Just us "friends."
Matt: No li'l Power Packers? Peter, what on earth are you doing here?
Superhero intervention... There's a concept you've just gotta love.
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