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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The fact that he has always retained his self control and never degenerated into a monster has made him more heroic in my view. |
Very true. |
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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | | I always felt that Matt crossed the 'Killer' line when he willfully dropped Bullseye. Even though Bullseye didn't die, Matt flipped out, beat him up real bad, and made the decision to drop him. And I thought it was great. |
No sure sure about that. His first instinct was to save him, and he tried to. That didn't agree with Bullseye, who pulled out one of Elektra's sais and went to stab Daredevil. He shouted, "I'll kill you!" Daredevil's choice was either get stabbed or drop him. He dropped him saying, "You'll kill no one ever again." Daredevil, though, followed his first instinct which was to save him. Bullseye would have rather have killed Daredevil and himself. I think Daredevil did what he had to, given the circumstances.
Ah... greatest single issue of a comic ever. |
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the gael
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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you're right, it was bullseye own desire. He said that daredevil saved him once and that it was a deep humiliation for him.
Bullseye prefered the death than been saved by the man he hate the most.
As for Matt, he is both catholic and liberal lawyer, and believe me, this kind of guys ( true catholics of course, who respect deeply the catholic precept ) havoid killing at any cost and are against death penalty. For them, even taking their own life ( suicide ) is a sin ( a guy who commit suicide goes to hell for them ). Only god can decide when people die.
So taking the life of someone else ( unless they have no choice to save their own life ) is a sin even worst.
I think that it's a very important part of the character. I want daredevil to hurt cranston very badly, but I really don't want him to kill him ( and cranston is such a good villian, it would be a shame to leave him out of the book ).
I think that if Matt did it under pressure, he will never forgive himself and would probably abandon the spandex once and for all. |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| the gael wrote: | | ( a guy who commit suicide goes to hell for them [catholics]). |
Hmm, I have to correct you on that. That conception was revised and now it no longer works that way. |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Anyway, maybe I should actually comment on this issue, since that's what this thread is for, right? This, to me, was a very "mid-arc" story. Aside from the excellent characterization of Cranston, who comes across as really scary, the point of the issue seemed to be to simply move the plot ahead from point A to point B. This is not a complaint, however, that's what an issue in the middle of an arc is supposed to do. But it leaves me wanting more - in a good way. By the time I reached the last page, the suspense was killing me, and I can't belive we all have to wait an entire month for the next installment. Matt's reaction to having Milla back (joy, but with no real sense of relief) is heart-breaking. He knows he's being manipulated and that he's not in control of the situation. His feeling that the nightmare is far from over is almost palpable, and when you find yourself really fearing for the characters, you know the writer is doing his job. Like I said, can't wait for the next issue.
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harryhausen
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 129
Location: U$A
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Ah... greatest single issue of a comic ever. |
Yes! The best part to me is how that scene is written and drawn in such a way that one’s interpretation of the events says more about the reader than the comic. Brilliant. Maybe we should have a poll, find out what everyone thinks? |
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Dimetre
Underboss
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1366
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| harryhausen wrote: | | Quote: | | Ah... greatest single issue of a comic ever. |
Yes! The best part to me is how that scene is written and drawn in such a way that one’s interpretation of the events says more about the reader than the comic. Brilliant. Maybe we should have a poll, find out what everyone thinks? |
The fact that the entire issue is narrated by Bullseye, and that he correctly deduces Daredevil's secret identity and then we hear from his point of view that he was wrong, it's just mindblowing. Also interesting is that while the narration is from Bullseye's point of view, Miller's artwork isn't. We are being shown things that Bullseye couldn't possibly be seeing while he is talking to us. It's brilliantly executed.
Anyway, that's the last I'll say about Volume 1 #181 in a thread about Volume 2 #102. |
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Solarstorm
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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It seems people think cranston wanted his trainers to hold back because he's a cheat/a coward etc...
It seemed to me in the dialogue that he seriously wanted to attack him like dd would so he could train/prepare but that subconciously, they were pulling punches because he's their boss.
It's not like he can train with DD |
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Solid Snake PAC
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Conroe, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| I agree w/ Solarstorm. It doesn't seem like Cranston wanted to have them hold back. It's more like the Trainers are holding back cuz he's their boss. And he knows that, and it's unfortunate on his part. Cuz he wants to be at that peak level to fight DD. |
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: |
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If Cranston wants his trainers to attack him without Fear, what he should do is to give them some sort of counter-venom to his Fear drug while they're training.
Otherwise, he's just testing how to take advantage of them and not really training.
So yes, I still think he's a cheat.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:02 am Post subject: |
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| Gloria wrote: | If Cranston wants his trainers to attack him without Fear, what he should do is to give them some sort of counter-venom to his Fear drug while they're training.
Otherwise, he's just testing how to take advantage of them and not really training.
So yes, I still think he's a cheat. |
Using drugs to control other people's behavior is big-time cheating in lots of different ways, but I agree that he probably would have preferred a more "real" training session. The problem with some kind of antidote to the gas is that he would then lose his control over them when they're not working out as well. You can't have your cake and eat it too, I guess.
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Gloria
Redemption
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 711
Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | The problem with some kind of antidote to the gas is that he would then lose his control over them when they're not working out as well. You can't have your cake and eat it too, I guess. |
So he's nothing without his drugs. He didn't even develop them!
To me, what makes me think that he doesn't actually want real training is the detail of having three beautiful dames with him in the bedroom: a man sure about his charms would consider a triumph to have just one... Would a man like Cranston, who doesn't take chances in his "love" life, take chances with his trainers to become a better fighter?
I don't think so. And I believe that this will be his undoing.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:12 am Post subject: |
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Well, what can I say, the guy obviously has issues. Among them a huge inferiority complex obviously. It would seem that this is what his beef with Matt is all about, after all. He's a twisted scary guy with a complex. Of all the categories of twisted scary people, those are probably the worst.
Either way, the suspense of this arc is just killing me. There's no way for us poor readers to know where this is going to go, except that it's going to be bad. Well, good bad. You know what I mean. 
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