Daredevil Message Board

jumonji · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:02 am Post subject:

Monday 8.00 am
The offices of Nelson, Blake and Murdock

Foggy: So, Matt... Can I talk to you about something?
Matt: Sure, Foggy. What's up?
Foggy: Remember Liz Allan?
Matt: Harry Osborn's wife? Sure.
Foggy: That's just it. Okay, this is going to sound strange, but I keep having these dreams about her.
Matt: What kinds of dreams?
Foggy: Okay, but promise you won't laugh.
Matt: I promise. But this all sounds very intriguing... *smiles*
Foggy: I keep dreaming that she and I dated.
Matt: But, she's married.
Foggy: Exactly... But in my dreams she's not.
Matt: Interesting... So what else happens in these dreams?
Foggy: I'm not telling you...
Matt: Say no more. I hear ya...
Foggy: I know this sounds completely nuts, but it's just so real.
Matt: Hey, I wrote the book on nuts.
Foggy: Yeah, I guess... But then there are all these things that happened later. Right before Karen died and I was accused of murder. I feel like I cheated on Liz with that woman.
Matt: But you were never with Liz, it was just a dream. Right?
Foggy: So you're not having any strange dreams about that time period or anything?
Matt: Well, the time from just before Karen died is kind of a haze. I was drugged and not exactly acting like myself. But we were also written by Kevin Smith at the time, remember?
Foggy: Yeah, that actually explains a lot when you think about it. But don't you ever get the feeling that our lives are being manipulated by someone higher up?
Matt: Like God or something?
Foggy: No. I keep hearing this letter in my head. 'Q' something.
Matt: Like that omniscient being from Star Trek?
Foggy: You watch Star Trek?
Matt: Not really, but how else would this dialogue make sense?
Foggy: Who says anything that happens has to make sense?
Matt: You've got a point there, partner.
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The Other Murdock Papers

Gloria · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:46 am Post subject:

james castle · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject:

I can't believe they undid the unmasking. I can't believe it.

Step 1: Create a media event the size of which compels you to spoil the surprise for comic readers by publishing said "surprise" in mainstream newspapers.

Step 2: Undo said event using the devil.

When you're compelled to wipe 20 years of continuity it's a pretty good bet that you've lost your way. Grant Morrisson completely rebooted the X-Men and wrote incredibly fresh stories without deleting a second of what came before him.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

Gloria · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject:

james castle · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject:

Gloria · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:34 pm Post subject:

Yes, that's the idea...

In fact, they are doing it in "Ultimate Spider-man", but there are other titles like "Spiderman loves Mary Jane" or the upcoming mini "Spider-Man: With Great Power" where the adventures of a younger Peter Parker are featured.

I think that either the "alternate universe" or "Stories from the past" options are pretty workable ways to write Spidey as a single teen who still lives with his aunt... Or so it seems to me.

Better, IMHO, than Joephistofelic deals à la Faust
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

Gloria · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

Reading all the OMD comments around the net, I've been reflecting over the whole thing.

There seems to be to fronts: a majority of people disliking OMD, and a minority heroically defending it, on the grounds that the new Spiderman coming out of it will have more interesting stories, and the anti-OMD front is basically a gang of Quesada-bashers.

Well, I don't like what is being done with Spidey right now at Marvel, but honest, I don't hate Joe Quesada.

As Marvel's EIC, he maybe took some decisions I don't agree with as a reader, but then he took some others which never hurt me at all. Under his tenure at Marvel, my favourite charecter, Daredevil, has got fine teams in the writing and drawing chores. I also keep following other Marvel series which I like (having a limited budget, I don't buy the ones I'm not enthusiastic about), so, If I'm still a Marvel reader, I bet I'm not uncomfortable with his drection of Marvel, on average.

Then comes Quesada the artist... Well, I don't like the way he drew Foggy Nelson in "Guardian Devil" (a genetic crossing between Billy Bunter and Jimmy Olsen), but I CAN'T say Quesada is a bad artist. In fact, I think that he's a pretty good penciller who knows his stuff... I mean, while not on my personal list of favourite comics artists, I can't say he's bad.

Then comes the Quesada I certainly don't like. The one, which, I believe, messes his work as editor and as an artist: that is Quesada the writer.

Honest, someone tell him writing scripts is not his trade. The proofs? Well, the one thing readers most dislike about the Spidey "Sins Past" saga is the Osborn Twins issue.

Yes, breath deep, I know the mere mention of Osborn twins is quite unnerving...

Apparently, Strazsynsky's original idea was to have the twins be Peter and Gwen's offspring... OK, as an idea if was a wee contrived ( I mean, when did Gwen had the time to mother them? She was always hanging around with Peter and the gang), but apparently, he had to change that story, for Quesada thought that having children would age Peter: Quesada's solution? make the kids become Osborn's spawn! I mean... If you are going to change something, change it for something which is better: the first story aged Peter, but the final solution soils Gwen's innocence forever more!

More proofs? Well, "Daredevil: Father", with Matt and everyone else outrageously out of character (Matt and Foggy as horny dawgs in usual competition for female customers?!), a very far-fetched excuse for a psycho, which throws dirt on Matt's very origins as a hero. Not to mention the much publicised Santerians, a team who distracts from the main plot, for no particular end).

Aside: The reason to introduce the Santerians in that story seems to be an homage to Quesada's Hispanic-Caribbean roots... still, they do little else in the story beyond displaying fancy suits and entering into the cliched "first meeting, first fight" situation with another hero... Being from Spain, I'd be supposed to sympathise with a "ethnic" hispanic superhero team, and support a story just because of that? Nope, What really tickles me about a comic is a good story, whether their protagonists are WASPs, Hispanos, African, Martians or dwellers of Alpha -Centaury is irrelevant to me.

Again, I don't think that Quesada's changes to Straszynski's story in OMD have been instrumental into making it a good story: my feeling is that, while I'm not a fan of "Back in Black", the story was one in which you could place Peter Parker, in which you could believe his motivations to act as he did... But in OMD? OMG it's more like it.

In short, Dear Mr. Quesada, I wish you a happy 2008, but stick to the pencils and your editorial desk, and leave to the writers to write the stories without interfering. They know their jobs... That's why you hired their services, all right?
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

jumonji · Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject:

Here's the second part of the One More Day interview with Joe Quesada. The whole part about how the Civil War unmasking was possible because they had been planning OMD for two years was interesting.

With regard to what Gloria is saying above, I think it's pretty clear that much of what Quesada has done at Marvel has been good for the company. But all of his decisions are obviously not very wise, and I think all this OMD nonsense might come back to haunt them. I haven't read Spider-man since I was ten, and I'm upset about it. If I were a big fan, I bet I'd be absolutely livid. It's hard to come up with how something similar would work for DD, but maybe having Matt go back to being in a love triangle with Karen and Foggy while swinging around town with a curved-handle billy club fighting Stilt-man and Electro comes pretty close.
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The Other Murdock Papers

jumonji · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject:

Whoa people! Get a load of this (from the third part of the One More Day interview with Joe Quesada at CBR).

Jonah Weiland (at CBR): All right. Now, instead of having to build up this pact with Mephisto to dissolve the marriage, why not just divorce them?

Joe Quesada: Sure, that would have been a very easy solution. However, how would a parent feel when they had to explain to their kid that Spider-Man just got divorced from his wife? How would that headline read across the AP or on USA today? The same can be said with an annulment. Sure, divorce is a reality of life, but Peter Parker and Spider-Man are not the types of characters that would do that. Spider-Man is a worldwide icon and is considered one of the good guys, like Superman. There’s always the option of killing off MJ, but over the years way too many key characters in Spider-Man mythology have been killed off. Much like the marriage, those deaths hurt the book. The Spider-Man books were better with Harry in them, as well as Norman. Also, how much older would Peter seem as a widower -- yikes!

Shocked

Now how do you explain to your kids that Peter just made a deal with the devil? Think about that one for a minute...
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The Other Murdock Papers

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

james castle · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject:

Wow. It just gets worse and worse. Honestly, this is getting insane. How are there going to be five parts to this interview? What kind of story needs a five part interview to justify/explain it? Surely it can't get worse. Part three is focused on "the science" (Joey Q actually says "science") of how the "deal with the devil" works. Joey Q saying this:

rgj · Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject:

For years I've been saying Joey Q is a chimp. A total idiot. And, as the years have gone by, he's only proven me right. Joey Q is the primary reason I barely read Marvel anymore. I mean, we've all been to the comic shop where some 13 year old kid has these dumb ideas of what comic book companies should do/write. Well, one of those 13 year olds "grew up" and brought his insane ideas to Marvel.

Joey Q wants MJ out of the picture. So he just makes up some stupid crap to justify it, so much so that one of his writers is ASHAMED to put his name on it. But, ya have to pay the bills, I guess.

Oh, and about this comment . . .

Jim B. · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:08 am Post subject:

Well unfortuntely I did get this series and I wish I hadn't. It will be the last Spidey books I will get from now on that's for sure. It's so bad what they've done to the character I'm not even sure what to say about this. It's just a total slap in the face to the fans, the writers of the last 20 years and the characters and stories as well. If anything the whole thing just leaves me confused.

What the hell was really so bad about Peter and Mary Jane being married anyways? If you wanted to read stories about a young Spidey who is not married there was Marvel essentials and masterworks, Ultimate Spiderman, Spidey loves MJ and whatever else. I first really read the comic right before they did get married back in the mid to late 80's and always thought it was handled well and was a logical step for them to take. How did this ruin the comic and the stories? I just don't get it. If anything it made the characters more real to me. Joe Q must be the only one in the world who feels this way and like a spoiled little kid he has to get his own way no matter what anyone else thinks. Maybe this means that Superman being married to Lois Lane ruined the character of Superman too? Good thing he doesn't work at DC too. Rolling Eyes

This whole thing about Harry never dieing makes no sense at all either. I just want to know how Harry never actually dieing affects Peter and MJ not getting married since he died way after they got married anyways. What does that have to do with it? Does it mean that he and MJ kept dating and he never went out with Liz Osbourn now? Did Harry never become the second Green Goblin now? Also how does erasing the fact Peter and MJ got married change the unmasking of Spider-man to the public???? Please explain that one to me Joe Q. By trying to make the comic go back to the "good old days" they have opened up a whole can of worms here and just caused nothing but trouble and confusion for everyone.

Thanks for ruining the character for everyone Joe. Make mine something else...
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"This isn't hell, but you can see it from here." -The Crow

james castle · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:55 am Post subject:

Gloria · Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject:

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.