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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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 Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Much as I liked the deceased Harry, I can't see the sense in his comeback... Maybe turning him into a soap-opera woobly good/bad guy as the "Lex Luthor" of Smallville? But then that's not Harry, never was. |
Who cares? We must attract teh new readerz! Smallville-ish soap opera FTW! |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But by manipulating the wording just a bit Joey Q is able to come up with his retort (one that makes no sense if you're considering the real argument).
A neat thing to notice about this kind of thing is that it's wildly dishonest. Joey Q is an idiot but he's not so stupid as to honestly make the mistake that he makes above. There's no doubt that it's a conscious thing. Lying to fans (again). Disgusting. |
I've noticed that too. Quesada has done this kind of verbal tricks more than once, especially with this mess of OMD.
Another example of this is when he said:
| Quote: | | Sometimes when I look at the way that the lines of opinion have been drawn in comics about the marriage, I see the argument falling into two basic camps. The fans may not perceive it this way on the surface, but it is what's happening when you look at it clearly. When we fall in love with these characters, we claim ownership over them in our own way; so for some fans, Peter belongs to them and no one else. So, the way I see it, there are two sides of the argument, two segments of fans. On one side, there is a contingency of fandom that wants Peter to age along with them and live life as they do. He needs to get married, have kids, then grandkids, and then the inevitable. One the other side, there are fans that realize Spidey needs to be ready for the next wave or generation of readers, that no one can lay claim to these icons, no one generation has ownership and that we need to preserve them and keep them healthy for the next batch of readers to fall in love with. |
First off, he speaks of these two "basic camps" as if they were equal, or at least in the same order of magnitude. We instead know, and it's proven -for example- by Newsarama's poll, that the readers' reactions to his brilliant idea of OMD have been, for the larger part, extremely negative. But let's ignore this voluntary misinterpretation/refusal to face reality.
Quesada then goes on to describe the vision of these two faction, and, basically, says that if you didn't like his brilliant idea of OMD it's because you "claim ownership over the character" and "want Peter to age along with [you] and live life as [you] do [...] get married, have kids, then grandkids, and then the inevitable".
If you disagree on his idea of having a huge chunk of continuity erased, spit on the affections of a large base of readers, have a superhero overcome difficulties by stage tricks involving pacts with malevolent entities, treating a loved hero as nothing more than a poster-boy for publicity and merchandising who needs to be renewed, then...
...then it means that you are a delusional, annoying fanboy who believes the character has to age with him and eventually die.
Also, the inexpicably 5 part interview is an equally disgusting trick by a comic book website to maximize benefit of the increased of traffic on this "hot topic" of Joe Q and OMD. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Another good zinger Joey Q barfed out is this one:
| Quote: | | Some of my favorite remarks are when I’m accused of playing god with Spider-Man. Ummmm, yeah, all of us who create these stories are playing god with the characters with every single story we create. That’s what all of us in comics do for a living, we play god in the lives of the characters. |
I've been surfing around a fair bit to different boards just to read all the outraged comments (seems to me people are talking about how bad this thing is on just about every comic related board there is). As is probably obvious, I can't get enough of this thing. I love a trainwreck. In any case, I have never seen anyone raise this "you're playing god" point. Everyone is saying "this makes no sense" and "this is horrible storytelling" and "this messes up the character" but no one is saying "stop playing god with Spider-Man".
This is another example of totally dishonest rhetoric. Step 1: make up completely ridiculous "point". Step 2: deliver pre-packaged and crushing "counter-point".
A lot of people say the moon is made of cheese. Well, I'm like, uhhhh, excuse me...it's made of rocks. Hahaha. Aren't I smart?
I really hope this whole thing has a lasting negative effect on Marvel.
I'm also a little disappointed with CBR with their five part interview thing. I wonder if Joey would have been welcome over at Newsarama given that he outright lied to them during the unmasking thing. In any event, shame on CBR for the ridiculously soft-ball questions and complete lack of follow up questions. The interview should have had two actual questions followed by pages and pages of "what? what does that mean?".
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Jim B.
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Woodstock Ontario
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Joe Q's argument that we as annoying fanboys want to see Peter grow old and die along with us is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Where is he coming up with this stuff? MJ and Peter fell in love and got married. That's all. I, like most every other comic fan out there we're fine with that and with them being with each other. Last time I checked Peter and MJ we're only in their mid twenties after all of these (real world against comic book world time) years. They we're not getting old anytime soon and having grandkids, moving to Florida and living in a retirement community. As far as I know they have kept Pete and MJ in the their early to mid twenties for decades now.
So where is he getting this stuff that we want to see them age? I don't get it (again) It just seems like more of his "talk" that makes no sense at all.
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"This isn't hell, but you can see it from here." -The Crow |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Voilà! Spidey's new status quo recapped in a neat splash page!
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=142267
*BLAAARGGHHH!!*
(sorry)
No, guys - I'm sorry - but:
| Quote: | | "No one knows Spidey's secret Identity! Not even Daredevil or the Avengers!" |
Not even Daredevil?!?
Why?!? Why on earth? And how can that be logically justified?!? How the hell is that related to all these undoing-marriages-that-age-the-character shenanigans?!? |
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Here's that splash page with better resolution: LINK
Yeah, this is really bad. I used to just feel bad for the Spidey fans, but this thing is infecting the entire Marvel Universe one way or another. One of my favorite scenes from Bendis's run, the superhero intervention (that Peter Parker most definitely attended), suddenly didn't happen.
It's obvious that they haven't thought this through. I'm all for not being a slave to continuity, but there are so many dangling threads here that it just cheapens the character and everyone around him. The whole thing with people not remembering the Civil War unmasking doesn't even fix the unmasking. It's not enough for people to forget. You would also have to change the fact that Peter was registered and his name is in a number of SHIELD and government databases. Not to mention the fact that, in today's world, it would be all over the Internet, so Mephisto would have to also erase a bunch of YouTube videos (and alter newspaper articles that have already been printed). Yes, I know this is make-believe and we should all just get over it, but the way they're trying to explain it... The explanation itself is so full of holes, it's insane. And Quesada invoking DD in making a completely and utterly irrelevant comparison ("Peter should be single because if he's married that would be like giving Matt Murdock his sight back") is just really cheap. Ehhh, how are those two things even comparable entities?  Especially since readers have apparently been fine with the marriage for the last twenty years.
On some level, I can actually understand Q's need to rejuvenate the character, but the way it's happening is undermining Marvel's credibility and screwing up continuity in not-so-minor ways. I want Marvel to do well for purely selfish (DD) reasons, but I hope the Spidey fans will protest by switching to other books. The idea of having readers switch to Amazing Spider-girl (where Peter and MJ are married) is a good way of voting with one's wallet. I suddenly feel compelled to get ASG in trades even if I have no interest in the character. According to CBR, some comics stores are already reporting that sales figures for ASG are going up.
Oh, well...*sigh*
UPDATED: The conversation that never took place.
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The Other Murdock Papers |
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Solid Snake PAC
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Conroe, Tx
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| I know this may sound stupid..but WHAT IF? and this is a big what if..Peter somehow gets his old messed up life at the end of all this. OMD and BND just has too much stuff to fix....Secret Wars, Maximum Carnage, Death of Ben Reilly, Onslaught, Return of Norman Osborn....ALL OF JRJR and JMS run, which was absolutley a GENIUS run on AMZ I've never seen a spidey run that good since....a VERY long time..what? Late 70s was the last time? |
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Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
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Katerine
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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[Please note that I've only read about OMD so far, due to the whole "I'm too poor to read comics until my public library gets them" thing]
I'm still holding out hope that the entire thing was conceptualized along the same lines as the BtVS episode, "The Wish." You know - where a character makes an incredibly stupid decision that completely rewrites reality, and then all the other characters have to find a way to get reality back to the way it should be.
That is, I'm hoping that the folks at Marvel secretly have a plan for this entire thing to be temporary, and that, not only will reality go back to normal eventually, but Peter will have to face the consequences for his incredibly stupid decisions.
Because any way you look at it, rewriting reality by making a deal with Satan is a very stupid thing to do (not to mention fundamentally *wrong* for a supposedly-heroic character). |
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