Daredevil Message Board

[james castle]

This is a bit of a take off from another topic where rgj expressed his dislike for Miller's MWF version of Elektra. You know the super crazed, hyper sexed up on that kills everyone and giggles?

It sort of got me thinking, especially because, truth be told, I don't really like Miller's "original" Elektra. I know rgj loves the Elektra Saga but it never really hung together for me. Matt Murdock's girlfriend's father is killed (okay) so she tried to become one of the Chaste (wait...she does what?) but is too angry so she joins the Hand instead (um) but then betrays them (okay, hold on a second) and become a freelance assassin (forget it. honestly, just forget it). And then comes back to life (honestly, just screw off). All the while she's still the vulnerable girl Matt knew...but also an assassin!

Related: I note that the Elektra Omnibus is coming out next month and lucky me I have never read either Elektra: Assassin or Elektra Lives Again (tried to buy both when I first got into DD (when I was very young) and my mom said "no!"). I'm looking forward to picking that up and reading about what I assume is a third version of Elektra.

All the while there's current Marvel Elekta (well, there was until...Skrull. Sigh). And, of course, Elektra: Private Dancer.

Both one of the best and one of the worst characters ever to grace the Marvel Universe. Which version does everyone like the most?

For now I like the giggling nut job MWF version. I'll be interested to see what the non-cannon Miller one is like though.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[rgj]

What I like about the "original" Elektra in TES is that she is basically Matt Murdock. What!?, you say! How??

What I liked about TES Elektra is that before her father's death, she, like Matt is an empty canvaas. Just a regular (although, she is rich) person (oh, and yeah, she's good at karate).

Both Matt and Elektra suffer the same tragedy. If Elektra becoming an assassin is unbelievable, as jc says, then it's no more nutty than Matt becoming a costumed hero.

The problem with TES is that we see Elektra's (post-father's death) fate basically in two issues, the one she is introduced in #168 and the Ressurection issue. I completely agree that it does seem rushed. In fact, TES Electra isn't really clearly developed, other than she really loves her father. JC points out the aspects of Elektra's journey to "evil," but because it is rushed (crammed into these two issues) it can kind of seem silly. But, these are events are over a long period of time. Why did she seek out the Chaste? Maybe if we knew that it would make more sense, as jc is flabergasted at Elektra looking for the Chaste. Clearly the Hand fooling Eletkra into killing her original sensi isn't what triggered her to the evil switch. Had the Hand's manipulaton of her been detailed, perhaps her acceptance of violence and "evil" would make more sense.

Her development is rushed, but ultimately she is what she is. A twisted, distorted mirror image of what Matt COULD have become if he had allwoed the grief of his father's death consume him in anger. Into a mirror, darkly.

The MWF Elektra totally kills this idea. Elektra didn't fall into her traps because of her father's death--her father's death really meant nothing in MWF. She was just a bad seed. She enjoyed killing. And, her over the top sex kitten bit is too Typhoid. Plain and simply, Typhoid does it better.

But, hey, that's just my two cents.

rgj

[the gael]

I like the original elektra the most. She was definitively the most interesting and mature character.
Miller created the " elektra saga " has a greek tragedy. And it very well worked. Matt Murdock the poor and elektra the rich girl should have been together forever. But " fate " separate them after the death of Nikolas Natchios.

And what was much more interesting is that Miller not only depicted the separation as " the hand of fate " but also that it is due,in fact, to the characters choices and reactions to the event.

Matt has chosen to stay in the " good side " and becoming a hero, but elektra ( who wasn't bad nor crazy ) has sunk in hate and violence due to the loss of a love one.
And years laters they meet together, being on both side, and having only a sweet past to remember when the present was just so... bitter. ( that's what doesn't really worked in the movie, the love affair could only happen in the past to really work )

It was mature.

I don't really like the MWF mostly due to the elektra characterization. It really ( sorry ) bastardize the character. A crazy girl who was inhabited by evil ? It's in contradiction with the fact that elektra has chosen her life and only live to regret.
It's really not as good as the former work, who was just so much more interesting, original and... Mature. ( but that's my point of view )

[Gloria]

Personally, I prefer the original Elektra.

I like MWF, but, as RGJ has mentioned in another thread, that Elektra is too "Typhoid Mary".

Elektra is good as Elektra. Typhoid Mary is good as Typhoid Mary... To Caesar what belongs to Caesar: each one must be in her own niche.
_________________
Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

[Neilan]

I have to go with TES as well, although as RGJ said, her evolution did seem rushed. And I liked MWF but didn't understand the different characterization of Elektra. Does anyone know why Miller went that route?

[Francesco]

I prefer the TES version. Also, I try to forget that the MWOF version even exists. Elektra is psychotic in a way that is end to itself in it.

I would make a more elaborate reply. Tomorrow, maybe.

[jduteau]

Coming new to DD, all I had was the movie characterization and then MWF. I didn't like the MWF version because that was too "sex-kitten" to me. I've just finished reading the first Elektra appearances in the Miller DD (#168-) and that seems to me to be the "true" Elektra. I've also just read Elektra:Assassin and that was "yucky" - her whole mind powers thing was a bit over the top.

Jean

[the gael]

[james castle]

I think the Greek character is "Electra" (with a "c") although I could be wrong. In any case, in the Greek play Electra is some lady who loves her dad and blah, blah, blah. When a woman has an irrational love for her father it's known as an "Electra Complex".
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Francesco]

Ancient greek had its specific letter to indicate the phoneme, so, both "Electra" or "Elektra" are ok, being phonetically equivalent.

We could also add that the death of their fathers tragically curses both Elektra Nachtios and the mythical Electra for the rest of their lives.

Anyway, The Elektra in MOTW is, to me, not nearly as fascinating like the one in the original saga. First off, she's trated as just an archetypal "psycho girlfriend", like any other. A dangerous, wild lady who seduces the young Matt, in good measure because of the very mystery she emanates.

Now, this type of character can be very interesting, but in MOTW, this is not the case.
We are told that this Elektra is bizarre, crazy and dangerous. She has a dark side and has, from time to time, the urge to lure lowlifes in alleys and kill them barehanded in her underwear. Ok, very neat. Problem is, there's nothing else. We don't get any other information on who Elektra is, if she has a more normal persona, if there are times when she's not grinning maliciously, how were she and Matt interacting as a couple when they weren't training together in swimsuit or having wild sex.

Then Sticks appears, warning Matt to stay away from her because -gasp- she is dangerous.
Not only we are given little information about the character. What little we get is also -somehow annoyingly- redundant.

The part of the story with Matt and Elektra at college is also quite separated by the rest of the event in that miniseries. It doesn't have a particular influence on the origins of the hero and isn't influenced at all by what has happened in the previous part. This is another reason why "the Elektra of MWOF" doesn't really convince me. Elektra is to be considered an important, crucial character if we are to tell the origin of the Man Without Fear. In this case, however, the whole story can be read the same ignoring the part that fetures her, and this automatically reduces the importance of the character in itself.

[Gloria]

[rgj]

[The Overlord]

There are still some things about this character I don't get. Why did she become an assassin? Her father was killed by terrorists, shouldn't she go around and kill terrorists instead of being an assassin? Some may say the Hand warped her when she tried to go undercover in that organization, but she left that organization and became a free agent, so it seems they are not entirely to blame.

Also what make her dfferent from any other assassin out there? She kills people for money and her willinginess to take a job to kill Foggy shows that includes innocent people. I don't see how she is an anti hero, she just seems like another selfish, immoral criminal who puts her desires above other people. That makes her seem like a villain, pure and simple. Sure she may feel bad for actions, but so what? Many villains have regretted their actions, it doesn't mean that they are not villains. I haven't heard of an anti hero who kills innocent people for their own benefit.

[Francesco]

[Gloria]