Daredevil Message Board

[jumonji]

Okay, that probably sounds like a strange title for a topic, but let me elaborate. As far as superheroes go, DD is definitely one of the more tragic characters out there. Not only is he born of trauma (life-altering accident + father's violent death), he's been through enough heart ache, physical pain and psychological torment to last many lifetimes. And that's how the fans like it, right?

I bring this up is to discuss how much pain is just enough pain, and at what point it becomes too much. What spurred this little line of inquiry have been some fan comments online in recent months. Many of the fans who love what Bru is doing (let's keep this thread spoiler-free by the way) willfully admit that they love seeing him pushed to the edge and one fan even stated that he didn't want to see Matt happy, constrasting that with how differently he felt about all the other characters he was following. Many of the fans who long for the Bendis days seem to bring up a similar argument, claiming to miss the time of complete chaos for Matt. You almost get the feeling that their main complaint with Bru's run is that our hero isn't suffering enough after the restoration of the "old" status quo. So, are DD fans completely sadistic or is there genuine fear that any light (however dim) in Matt's life will ruin the character and writers' ability to create good stories?

My take on this is that there is a risk that too much suffering actually cheapens the suffering. It's like with comic book deaths. With people constantly dying you don't really care that much after a while. With Matt's life in constant turmoil, you begin to wonder why he doesn't just blow his brains out, and I think that every now and then, for at least a few issues, there needs to be a lighter tone to serve as a contrast to the darkness that will inevitably return. What are your thoughts on this? Would DD work as a slightly lighter (though by no means uncomplicated) character or does he need to be down and out for his stories to work?

Personally, I'm looking forward to that arc starting with #107. "Other people's problems" sounds like a breath of fresh air compared to the last few years of only Matt Murdock's problems. Not that those weren't good stories, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.
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The Other Murdock Papers

[Francesco]

Espresso macchiato caldo, in tazza grande.

[Gloria]

I was about to vote for the sweetest option (Kesel) but then I became aware that we can't go back there anymore: Karen isn't there to brighten Matt's world with her smile, and Deuce the devil dog seems definitely gone AWOL.

Even though I love the saga where matt lost everything to find himself (Born Again), and admit that Matt's "never give up" trademark stance is best showcased when he's back to the wall, I believe that there's an overkill of tragedy in his life. We can't do the Born again thing over and over: repetition kills the flavour of the dish!

Yes, I'd like to see the occasional smile here and there, and Matt and Foggy (Dakota and Becky might join them) having a few beers, and telling LAwyer's jokes (In fact, you've got to love "Playing to the camera" if only for that ending at the bar!).

Matt's got enough tragedy in his life: Jack Murdock, Elektra, Heather, Karen.... (I don't add Glorianna O'Breen to the list as I entertain the hopeful idea that her death was faked and she's actually in Witness Protection due to her IRA connections).

DD is a series which works well with a Grim and Gritty approach, but let's have a bit of sunny side up sometime!
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

[the gael]

I don't know what to answer.
For me, the DD stories have to be cyclic to satisfy me.
I like dark and gritty stories, like born again.
but I really hope that after the current arcs, we will see some " lighter stories ".

Matt story is about an idealistic man who try to bring justice and hope in our dark and corrupted world.
Sure it must imply some dark tales ( which is good ), but how can there be hope if the main character is only in depression ?
How can Matt be a hero if he always fell ?
In real life, someone who only suffer pain will succumb to corruption or become crazy.

I hope that in the future we will have a " sunny " period like the kesel days ( or the pre typhoid mary nocenti days ). and then return to the dark depressing days for another cycle.

[Neilan]

Just like there can't be light without dark, IMO, there shouldn't be non-stop piling-it-all-on-Matt without a lighthearted break, now and then, to relieve the tension. Subsequently, I went with choice 3.
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It's never too late to have a happy childhood!

[Isaac]

I've always thought about opening such a thread... I'm a sadist by the way...

[The Overlord]

See but DD title can still be dark without Matt's life being in chaos all the time, there plenty of villains out there who are evil individuals, but desire to hurt the innocent, rather than Matt himself. There are tons enemies out there who have other agendas besides hurting Matt and tons of new story ideas that don't involve Matt's life being threatened personally. Serial Killers, corrupt corporations, deranged cults, etc of those are dangerous enemies who are dangerous, but pose a threat to the people of hell's Kitchen rather than DD himself.

Or you could have a villain who has a grudge against a third party and DD has to defend this third party from said villain. Or have two villains fighting against each other with DD in the middle. There are numerous stories you can do without DD's life falling apart. DD should still live in a noir real and his villains should still be dark and vile, but the character himself can lighten up a bit. There is a balance between his life falling apart all the time and his silver age adventure where he fought aliens and stilt-man was a serious villain.

[SouthernHero]

The darkness is one of the best parts of this book. It is pulled off so well, instead of being "gritty" for grittiness sake.

When Matt is getting pummelled and heart broken... I feel the same way. No other book does that to me. That's how I know that they are doing something right.

Can anyone relate?
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Middle Class Fabulous

[Gloria]

[Francesco]

[Gloria]

[Francesco]

[jumonji]

I agree wholeheartedly with Gloria here. That is not to say that I don't understand where the "sadists" are coming from. I'm sure we have all been through tough times of one variety or another. I know I have. But the thing that makes it all better (for me anyway) is when a friend calls and asks if I want to go out for dinner with "the gang," and it's moments like that that remind us what life is really all about. That even when you've hit a bump or two, there are all those things out there that make it all worth it. Things as simple as friendships, a great dinner, or a favorite song on the radio.

I find Matt/DD to be an extremely relatable character and when he's down (or up) that affects me as a reader. I can certainly relate to his pain. BUT, it becomes "unrelatable" when the suffering is so constant and so intense that Matt (and the readers) completely lose track of those "bigger" things that ultimately make life worthwhile.

Matt needs a karaoke night (or something similar) once in a while to remind him of why he keeps on going. Of course, we can't have Matt and Foggy having beer take up an entire issue, but a lighter tone is sometimes needed. Constant despair it not something I can relate to.

(Question to Gloria: Is karaoke something Foggy would pick because he would beat Matt at it rather easily? Matt would actually have to know the songs by heart, after all...)
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The Other Murdock Papers

[Francesco]

I ageee totally also, but may I ask to please drop the whole "those who don't look forward to Karaoke and beers with Foggy and Becky = sadist readers"?

[Gloria]