|
Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| How would you rate this issue? |
| A - Excellent |
|
68% |
[ 11 ] |
| B - Very good |
|
12% |
[ 2 ] |
| C - Fair to good |
|
6% |
[ 1 ] |
| D - Not a big fan |
|
12% |
[ 2 ] |
| F - Nope, didn't like it |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 16 |
|
| Author |
Message |
jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| blacktyphoid wrote: | As for me, Brubaker is great - as Brubaker, not as a Miller clone (minus the "constant imitation", of course).
__________________
blacktyphoid |
I agree. Without underestimating the importance and contributions of Frank Miller to the DD mythos (and the survival and current incarnation of the character), I have to admit that I like Brubaker better. I don't think he's "better" in any objective sense of the word - that's not for me to judge - I just happen to really like Bru's storytelling. And, he definitely has his own style. Born Again is still probably my favorite DD arc, though.
_________________
The Other Murdock Papers |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
blacktyphoid
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jumonji wrote: | | blacktyphoid wrote: | As for me, Brubaker is great - as Brubaker, not as a Miller clone (minus the "constant imitation", of course).
__________________
blacktyphoid |
I agree. Without underestimating the importance and contributions of Frank Miller to the DD mythos (and the survival and current incarnation of the character), I have to admit that I like Brubaker better. I don't think he's "better" in any objective sense of the word - that's not for me to judge - I just happen to really like Bru's storytelling. And, he definitely has his own style. Born Again is still probably my favorite DD arc, though. |
Well said.
________________
blacktyphoid |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| blacktyphoid wrote: | | Neilan wrote: |
With this arc, I feel that Mr. Brubaker has cemented his position in the pantheon of DD writers. |
I presume you mean in the pantheon of "great" DD writers. Okay. If that's the way you feel, I can't argue with your point of view. |
That's exactly what I mean.
| blacktyphoid wrote: |
| Neilan wrote: | | He is true to the legacy of Frank Miller without constant imitation. Daredevil and his supporting characters are in great hands. |
However, I do take serious issue with this line of yours. I'm sorry - but this blind devotion to everything Miller (which so many DD readers are so painfully guilty of, I may add!), as if there's no other way to guage a creator's effectiveless and contributions other than comparisons to Miller, makes me want to hurl!
Why must a writer (or artist for that matter) be positioned alongside Miller or to be following "the legacy of Frank Miller without constant imitation" to be considered a great writer or contributor to Daredevil? Don't get me wrong here, Miller was great. But c'mon! The guy wasn't perfect. Not everyone likes all the gritty, noir changes he made or all the ninja stuff he infused into the story (similar to the way many of us hated the science fiction stuff Steve Gerber inserted into the book). And, as a result, not all of us DD followers worship in the Temple of Miller or appreciate everything he did with the character. (For instance in a different thread, I outlined an important visual element about the Colan Daredevil that's been absent since he departed the scene.) So please - Stop positioning Miller within his own pantheon of greatness, upon which all other creators must be judged to be worthy. Yet this is precisely what you are doing. And that's just plain unfair and wrong.
If you feel Brubaker is great (and that's okay), then let him be great - in his own right! Let his contributions mark their own unique pantheon of greatness.
As for me, Brubaker is great - as Brubaker, not as a Miller clone (minus the "constant imitation", of course).
__________________
blacktyphoid |
I don't feel like I blindly worship Frank Miller, but I do appreciate what he did for the Daredevil franchise. Whether he's the best DD writer or not, I feel he is the most influential. He established a certain look and feel to the book that is very appealing to me, and seem like the foundation for both Bendis' and Brubaker's runs, two of my three favorites. For me, gritty and dark works great for this title. Do I think everything he touched, with regard to DD was gold? No, I could do with less ninjas, especially ones that can resurrect the dead, but overall, I think he revitalized the franchise and gave it a more mature feel.
Now, when it comes to "The Dean", I do worship at that temple. I love Lark's DD work, and Maleev's before him, but Colan will always be my personal favorite. I'm sure much of my feeling comes from him being the artist on the title when I was 1st reading this book, but the fluidity and grace of his Daredevil, and the way he conveyed movement, are the clinchers. His DD will always be what comes to my mind when I think of Daredevil.
_________________
It's never too late to have a happy childhood! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blacktyphoid
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 137
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="Neilan"] | blacktyphoid wrote: | | Neilan wrote: |
With this arc, I feel that Mr. Brubaker has cemented his position in the pantheon of DD writers. |
I presume you mean in the pantheon of "great" DD writers. Okay. If that's the way you feel, I can't argue with your point of view. |
| Neilan wrote: | | That's exactly what I mean. |
Sorry about that, Neilan. In hindsight, my comment about your sentence sounds really anal. That's because it is!
| blacktyphoid wrote: |
| Neilan wrote: | | He is true to the legacy of Frank Miller without constant imitation. Daredevil and his supporting characters are in great hands. |
However, I do take serious issue with this line of yours. I'm sorry - but this blind devotion to everything Miller (which so many DD readers are so painfully guilty of, I may add!), as if there's no other way to guage a creator's effectiveless and contributions other than comparisons to Miller, makes me want to hurl!
Why must a writer (or artist for that matter) be positioned alongside Miller or to be following "the legacy of Frank Miller without constant imitation" to be considered a great writer or contributor to Daredevil? Don't get me wrong here, Miller was great. But c'mon! The guy wasn't perfect. Not everyone likes all the gritty, noir changes he made or all the ninja stuff he infused into the story (similar to the way many of us hated the science fiction stuff Steve Gerber inserted into the book). And, as a result, not all of us DD followers worship in the Temple of Miller or appreciate everything he did with the character. (For instance in a different thread, I outlined an important visual element about the Colan Daredevil that's been absent since he departed the scene.) So please - Stop positioning Miller within his own pantheon of greatness, upon which all other creators must be judged to be worthy. Yet this is precisely what you are doing. And that's just plain unfair and wrong.
If you feel Brubaker is great (and that's okay), then let him be great - in his own right! Let his contributions mark their own unique pantheon of greatness.
As for me, Brubaker is great - as Brubaker, not as a Miller clone (minus the "constant imitation", of course).
__________________
blacktyphoid |
| Neilan wrote: | | I don't feel like I blindly worship Frank Miller, but I do appreciate what he did for the Daredevil franchise. Whether he's the best DD writer or not, I feel he is the most influential. He established a certain look and feel to the book that is very appealing to me, and seem like the foundation for both Bendis' and Brubaker's runs, two of my three favorites. |
I can't argue with you here, Neilan. Many industry insiders of this generation defer to Miller as their major influence. And you can't argue with his monumental contributions to Daredevil. I guess the thing that boils my blood is that part of what makes the Miller mythos so special IS the Miller mythos (warts and all). In other words, Miller becomes the ONLY standard by which industry insiders, pundits and therefore fans, who feel they must fall in line or else be deemed idiots, use to guage Daredevil's quality. In essence, it becomes a self-fulfilling statement that cannot be challenged. Plus it's cool to associate the creator of the Dark Knight with Daredevil - it gives ol' hornhead a certain gravitus that many flagship heroes cannot claim.
| Neilan wrote: | | Now, when it comes to "The Dean", I do worship at that temple. I love Lark's DD work, and Maleev's before him, but Colan will always be my personal favorite. I'm sure much of my feeling comes from him being the artist on the title when I was 1st reading this book, but the fluidity and grace of his Daredevil, and the way he conveyed movement, are the clinchers. His DD will always be what comes to my mind when I think of Daredevil. |
Well said. When I hear about Miller's influence, it's almost never followed up with a paragraph such as this one.
Thanks for letting me vent all over you. At least venting is cleaner than hurling. 
________________________
blacktyphoid |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
