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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: September DD comics solicits now up |
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Looks to be a busy month in September, as DD#111 arrives with 3 covers, there's a special Gene Colan tribute book, a 10th anniversary edition of Guardian Devil, and a Marvel Spotlight on Marvel Knights' anniversary.
http://www.manwithoutfear.com/ddUPCOMING.shtml
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Kuljit Mithra
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I thinking of picking up the spotlight on Marvel Knights just to make my head spin in a rage. My favorite bit from the solicit is:
| Quote: | | "Who knew that the cutting-edge reinventions of characters like Daredevil, Black Panther and Punisher would not only revive those properties, but also serve as the opening salvo of the reinvention of Marvel Comics?" |
Daredevil? Reinvention? Since when? Prior to the Marvel Knights banner he was a blind lawyer living in Hells Kitchen moonlighting as Daredevil. After Marvel Knights he was a blind lawyer living in Hells Kitchen moonlighting as Daredevil...with another dead girlfriend? Is that a reinvention? And how was the Punisher re-invented? Wasn't he just exactly the same?
Similarly, in revent interviews Joey Q keeps repeating that Daredevil was on the verge of cancellation when the whole Marvel Knights thing happened. Surely that can't be true.
Anyway, with the whole 10th Anniversary thing Joey Q is really pushing the "Marvel Knights was a massive success" line. Even though the only books that seemed to be successful at all were Punisher and Daredevil; books that were successful anyway.
Inhumans, anyone?
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Kuljit Mithra
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1530
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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JC, you don't remember how they changed Punisher? Made him some demon killer when angels resurrected him after he killed himself (does anyone know if I just remembered that correctly?)
He had some mark on his forehead.
While I agree with what you're saying about DD, I really liked the Inhumans series. Have you read it? It had some great Jae Lee artwork.
While it was never really officially said that DD was on the verge of cancellation, the numbers were pretty low at that time.
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Kuljit Mithra
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | Daredevil? Reinvention? Since when? Prior to the Marvel Knights banner he was a blind lawyer living in Hells Kitchen moonlighting as Daredevil. After Marvel Knights he was a blind lawyer living in Hells Kitchen moonlighting as Daredevil...with another dead girlfriend? Is that a reinvention? And how was the Punisher re-invented? Wasn't he just exactly the same? |
I think that by "re-invention" they really mean re-packaging, which usually works well, because people like the feeling of getting a new product, whether it's actually new or not.
| james castle wrote: | | Similarly, in revent interviews Joey Q keeps repeating that Daredevil was on the verge of cancellation when the whole Marvel Knights thing happened. Surely that can't be true. |
It wouldn't suprise me if this part is true. From looking at the old sales numbers on this site, it would appear as if the book is currently selling almost twice as many issues as it did toward the end of Vol 1, and it's still far from where it was at its Vol 2 high point.
At the end of the day though, Daredevil probably didn't need Marvel Knights. It needed some hype to introduce it to people who had forgotten about the character. The fact that Kevin Smith is credited with some of the success of the relaunch is proof of this since that storyline leaves much to be desired. Whatever the case may be, the Marvel Knights imprint signalled the re-packaging of a familiar product and created great marketing opportunities. That was probably all it took and there were certainly other ways this could have happened.
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Neilan
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Southampton, PA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't Vol. 1 in danger of cancellation a number of times? I know that at least at one point, Marvel cut back to an every other month schedule for DD, although that's probably going back pretty darn far.
| jumonji wrote: | | I think that by "re-invention" they really mean re-packaging, which usually works well, because people like the feeling of getting a new product, whether it's actually new or not. |
I'm not sure that they mean re-packaging, although that is what it was. I think that they're just being disingenuous. But whatever you call it, the reboot worked as far as garnering interest in DD.
| jumonji wrote: |
At the end of the day though, Daredevil probably didn't need Marvel Knights. It needed some hype to introduce it to people who had forgotten about the character. The fact that Kevin Smith is credited with some of the success of the relaunch is proof of this since that storyline leaves much to be desired. Whatever the case may be, the Marvel Knights imprint signalled the re-packaging of a familiar product and created great marketing opportunities. That was probably all it took and there were certainly other ways this could have happened. |
As much as I hate to credit Kevin Smith (it's not that I don't like him, I'm just not too fond of his DD work), having what was considered to be a "name" at the time, probably did do alot for the title. As time went by, I'd like to think that Mack, Bendis and Maleev had even more impact as far as keeping readers.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, apparently the Punisher-As-Avenging-Angel business was under the Marvel Knights imprint (in a four issue mini-series). I guess that is quite the re-invention. The only problem is that that particular re-invention backfired like crazy. Far from rejuvinating the franchise, that particular story is universally mocked. When Garth Ennis took over he immediately ignored the entire thing and pulled off the greatest retcon of all time. Frank simply thought:
| Quote: | | I caught a glimpse of heaven once. The angels showed me. The idea was I'd kill for them. Clean up their mistakes on earth. Eventually redeem myself. Tried it. Didn't like it. Told them where to stick it. |
That's how you retcon a bad idea.
I never read the Inhumans. I'm sure I would have liked it. I've always found those characters facinating. In any event, my point is that the book, under Marvel Knights, failed. If I recall correctly it was retroactively made into a mini-series when it tanked.
As for the "I think that by 're-invention' they really mean re-packaging" thing....that's my point. All they did was re-package DD in the cheesiest way possible. The difference is that re-invention entails something new; some new substance. Re-packaging is just throwing on a fancy cover and hoping all the mush-heads buy it. I think Marvel knows damn well that they didn't "re-invent" Daredevil during Marvel Knights. I also think they know that it would be cooler if they did so they're just bold facedly saying they did.
Same thing with the cancellation thing. If Joey Q really did save DD from cancellation that's something. Of course there's no way to confirm whether he did or not now so why not just say he did? It always amazes me how willing Marvel is to just lie to make themselves sound cooler or to make more sales.
I'd say the fact that there was no chatter at the time about it being cancelled is pretty good evidence that it wasn't going to be. Plus, DD has been through some dark times and not been cancelled so it's doubtful they would have pulled the plug back then.
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jumonji
Guardian Devil
Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Posts: 636
Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Neilan wrote: | | As much as I hate to credit Kevin Smith (it's not that I don't like him, I'm just not too fond of his DD work), having what was considered to be a "name" at the time, probably did do alot for the title. As time went by, I'd like to think that Mack, Bendis and Maleev had even more impact as far as keeping readers. |
This is exactly what I mean. A lot of the credit goes to Kevin Smith, but more due to his fame than to the merits of the actual story. Smith was obviously part of the hype, and as far as hype goes it was pretty good hype.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jumonji wrote: | | Neilan wrote: | | As much as I hate to credit Kevin Smith (it's not that I don't like him, I'm just not too fond of his DD work), having what was considered to be a "name" at the time, probably did do alot for the title. As time went by, I'd like to think that Mack, Bendis and Maleev had even more impact as far as keeping readers. |
This is exactly what I mean. A lot of the credit goes to Kevin Smith, but more due to his fame than to the merits of the actual story. Smith was obviously part of the hype, and as far as hype goes it was pretty good hype. |
I agree.
Basically the Marvel Knights Spotlight issue should read "We hired Kevin Smith, who is a hack but was really popular at the time to write Daredevil. It did really well. The Punisher kinda started under the imprint but sort of sucked but then we hired Garth Ennis who is awesome but it turned out that he was too awesome so we had to move the title to MAX. All other Marvel Knights projects failed. The End."
I can't wait for the Brand New Day 10th year anniversary when it is unveiled that BND was met with undying love from everyone.
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JC
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train
Guardian Devil
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 659
Location: Hell's Pantry
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | I never read the Inhumans. I'm sure I would have liked it. I've always found those characters facinating. |
i read it as it was being published. i remember it being a very entertaining read....but i can't remember specifics about the story. if you have some cash burning a hole in your pocket, you could probably pick those issues up cheap. worth a look for sure. i'm gonna to dig those out of my collection and give them another read. |
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entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| james castle wrote: | | jumonji wrote: | | Neilan wrote: | | As much as I hate to credit Kevin Smith (it's not that I don't like him, I'm just not too fond of his DD work), having what was considered to be a "name" at the time, probably did do alot for the title. As time went by, I'd like to think that Mack, Bendis and Maleev had even more impact as far as keeping readers. |
This is exactly what I mean. A lot of the credit goes to Kevin Smith, but more due to his fame than to the merits of the actual story. Smith was obviously part of the hype, and as far as hype goes it was pretty good hype. |
I agree.
Basically the Marvel Knights Spotlight issue should read "We hired Kevin Smith, who is a hack but was really popular at the time to write Daredevil. It did really well. The Punisher kinda started under the imprint but sort of sucked but then we hired Garth Ennis who is awesome but it turned out that he was too awesome so we had to move the title to MAX. All other Marvel Knights projects failed. The End."
I can't wait for the Brand New Day 10th year anniversary when it is unveiled that BND was met with undying love from everyone. |
Remember that nearly all projects fail. Just the fact that they rebuilt the Punisher into a character capable of holding two monthlies (when all his titles had been cancelled for several years at that time) makes it a success.
And don't forget Priest's Black panther, which lasted 60 issues which is far and away the longest run that title ever had. It's also awesome, like most MK projects were. |
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