Daredevil Message Board

[Kuljit Mithra]

DAREDEVIL #16 by Waid, Samnee and Wilson ships June 24th, and here's a preview!

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V4-016

Please use this thread to discuss the issue!
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Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com

[Dimetre]

It's an improvement over the previous few issues.

I think Chris Samnee really stepped up this issue. Through most of Volume 4, I've been feeling his been rushing pages and not trying too hard. Look at this issue-- the meeting with Fisk and the splash page of the villain rising out of the water are flawless. Samnee did a great job this issue.

And I think everyone will be happy with the identity of the villain rising out of the water.

As for Matt's plan....

It's kind of depressing. Well, mostly. It suggests to me that Marvel isn't really pressing a reset button with the end of Secret Wars. I think they're steering all of their series towards massive gamechangers all at the same time. So, I'll take comfort in that.

But, come on Waid. We've already been where you're taking us.

First of all, Waid treats the meeting with Fisk as something totally new. As if Matt has never made a deal with Fisk before. This is surprising, because Waid has previously shown a lot of familiarity with Daredevil's history before. I think Waid has to be aware of the Micah Synn saga. I may be wrong. Also, Matt thinks to himself, "I'll probably never have a better chance than I do right now to destroy the most evil man I've ever known...." You'd think Waid must have read Last Rites by D.G. Chichester and Lee Weeks. Again, I may be wrong, but I'd be really surprised about that.

But Matt's offer to Fisk is what I find really depressing.

[SPOILERS]

If the deal goes through (and there are signs that it may not), then it will be a return to the early 90s, when Matt had faked his death, assumed the identity of Jack Batlin, and was running around in an armoured costume that resembled venetian blinds. Daredevil fans tend not to remember this era fondly, although it does have a few defenders.

If this arrangement does go through, perhaps the creative team following Waid and Samnee can do a better job of it than Chichester and McDaniel did twenty-something years ago. But that doesn't matter. This has been done before, and that's not good. Waid and Samnee didn't come up with an innovative way to resolve this jam in which Daredevil finds himself. It's depressing.

I do have to give some kudos to Samnee for that last page. The image of Foggy lying bleeding on the floor is horrifying. The fact that Foggy is on the cover of this issue suggests to me that this may be the end of Foggy Nelson.

[kentuckydevil]

[Daredevil24]

I seriously doubt Waid has read most of the work that has come before him on modern day Daredevil or he wouldn't have put himself in the spot he's in now.He's probably told by the editors bits and pieces of the previous runs.
Here are some reasons at the top of my head.

1 He made Matt say he wasn't a real believer in the supernatural even though Blackheart first appeared in his comics and he has had conversations with Mesphisto
2.Bendis had already said why he could never come forward and tell the courts his secrets.He pissed all over that very well written scene between Matt and Luke Cage.
Waid is a fan of pre Miller DD and that's always what he mostly talks about during his interviews.He made that perfectly clear when he said Mike Murdock was unfairly ridiculed.

Two more issues to go but I doubt Daredevil is gonna get much better post Waid.A reboot would've been nice but I guess we'll see.

[DesignDevil]

I give this a 2 because of the art and it was slightly better than the last two issues, but thats really only because it had nowhere to go but up. Still a mind numbingly stupid chain of events.

"So tell me Murdock, why don't you call one of your numerous other hero friends like the ones who helped you the last time your life was falling apart? That would make so much more sense?"

"Sorry Wilson, I'm a ****ing idiot now."

"You realize every other time we've done this "enemy of my enemy..." thing it hasn't worked out for either of us?"

"What part of ****ing idiot don't you get Wilson?"

"What, oh sorry yeah, I'm a ****ing idiot now too Matthew. Let's go walk through my art gallery that I suddenly have because we gotta reference the Netflix. Good thing you can't see all the stupid paintings Ive had done of you Matthew, or else you'd find out that I'm actually 10 years old."

"What? I wasn't listening. I was thinking about how awesome and cool and amazing and better than me my cool girlfriend Kirsten is."

[Francesco]

[JoeWithoutFear]

SPOILERS!!

1. This issue was far better than the last few. If for no other reason than it hints at changes on the horizon and we at least now have the peace of mind knowing that awful 3-piece suit was super temporary.

Since my standards have been set so low recently, I'm actually totally fine with where things are headed. The ONLY thing that I'm not at all happy about is the idea of this plastic surgery thing. That's just.... no. Don't do that. Let Matt be Matt and just use that creativity of yours to write a better "faked death" story this time.

2. RGdesigner just won the internet! =)

[Rand]

The Good:

All three of Samnee’s splash pages: the reveal of Wilson’s gallery, the reveal of Ikari, and the final page.

The Bad:

Several weird wording choices on Waid’s part --

1) "I’ve left a trail here behind me a sighted man could follow."

Ironically, I can’t follow this trail! Matt’s arguing that he’s left such a trail that "even" a sighted man could follow it. Wouldn’t it have made sense only if he had argued the opposite: that "even" a blind man could follow it?

2) "Shroud’s hung a big, fat target on everyone in my crew."

"My crew", Matt? (Really??)

3) "You guarantee the safety of my people, and the identity bell gets unrung."

On the one hand, "my people" is a big improvement over "my crew"; on the other hand, when has any hero in the history of comics used the phrase "ring the identity bell"? (Apparently, Matt is simultaneously coining this new phrase and inverting it, making his language all the more difficult to follow.)

-- and a couple bizarre proposals from Matt --

1) "Everyone … will be told I’m dead. Meanwhile, you’ll give me a new name and identity …"

Part of me wants to say "I think everyone remembers how well this same plan worked 20 years ago, beginning with "Fall from Grace"/"Tree of Knowledge"… yet another part of me has countered that all long-time fans have since installed blocks in their memories preventing access to the entire "new costume" era, and rightfully so!

2) "You’ll oversee the plastic surgery so that only you recognize the face."

Ohh… I see… Now, we’re mixing in elements of "Flying Blind", too! Everyone fondly remembers that story arc from 15 years ago, and how it "coincidentally" aligned with the first f-cking series cancellation that Daredevil ever suffered!

-- plus one last point (which is difficult to sum up with any one quote):

Matt’s master plan is to… have Wilson promise to "guarantee the safety" of Kirsten and Foggy… while himself allowing Wilson to "take anyone or anything away" from him "at any time". Put aside whether or not such a plan makes sense on a "character level" (i.e., Matt’s desires/motivation); how does such a plan make sense on a logical level?

"MESS WITH MY PEOPLE, KINGPIN, GO AHEAD!! JUST ONE CATCH: DON’T DARE MESS WITH MY CREW!!"

*sigh*

I'm hopeful that Waid is merely throwing said proposals out there as nods to fans who've survived the likes of "Flying Blind", having Matt entertain them solely as a tongue-in-cheek way of expressing his desperation. (After all, it seems clear from this issue's final pages that Wilson has no need to accept Matt's offer.)

Still, I’m apprehensive about the final two issues of Volume 4, and what will follow…

The Verdict:

3 (out of 5)

Any issue with Samnee art deserves no less than a 2. (And this issue was at least better than the last two or three!)

[JoeWithoutFear]

@Rand

I agree with pretty much all that you've said. One thing I wanted to chime (heh) in on was your confusion about the bell phrase.

It might be used in other fields but I know that in the field of communication it's a somewhat common phrase referring to how messages are sent and cannot be unsent. For instance, if I say "you're the worst person on the forum!" that will forever shape your opinion of me. Even if I apologize later and say I didn't mean it at all, I can't UNsay what you heard. I can't make you UNhear it. They equate this to ringing a bell. Once it's rung, people hear it and that can't be undone.

Like I said, the phrase may be used in other places, ones that you're familiar with, but that's where I've come across it.

I could see how it would apply to Matt's identity if you think about that information being spread the way mass media communication is spread. I can only assume that's what Waid was going for. *shrug*

Again, agreed on all the rest. A little nitpicky but good observations. =)

EDIT: I just looked it up. Looks like the most common use is conceptually exactly what I was describing but from the field of law. So, now it makes even more sense for Matt to be using it!
LINK

[Darkdevil]

4/5

Loved the pacing in this issue, Waid switching between the various plots, slowly building up the tension till we get to that chilling last page.

I think Matt's proposal is bold as Waid has hit upon a keen insight on Fisk's relationship with Matt over Fisk being one of the few to know his secret identity. Yes, we've seen the 'deal with the devil' aspect before but Fisk has already double-crossed Matt, with Ikari (who is great to see again). So, who knows if this deal will actually go through anyway.

The art gallery is a blatant nod to the Netflix show but it doesn't bother me, it's to be expected, just as we now have brave SHIELD agent Phil Coulson running around and Nick Fury Jr, who is black and wearing an eyepatch, running SHIELD these days.

Samnee turns in some terrific work, both splash pages with Ikari are great, but it's the little touches that are nice too. Notice how small the cellphone is in Fisk's hands when he calls Ikari.

It may not be a stellar ending to a controversial run, but between dealing with Fisk, Ikari threatening Foggy and Kirsten, and the ever-ongoing search for Julia by the Shroud, I'm looking forward to seeing how all this plays out

[Francesco]

I think this is "Serpent Society has become so scary and dangerous mamma mia" all over again.

We are told that the situation is catastrophical but we are not really shown how. We are told that repeatedly and confusedly and in the end we get the main character doing something absurd that makes absolutely no sense, just like it happened with the serpent society.

Seriously, how is whatever happened matt's fault? some guy (I still don't get if he's the owl or the shroud, what the heck happened to the owl to make him go Matrix like that, or what the heck is Shroud's problem with matt) recorded all his private conversations. it's that guy's fault, not Matt's!

The crazy thing is that I'm rooting for Ikari now. I hope he kills them all, especially that idiot that has been impersonating matt murdock during waid's run.
oh and mary-sue-kirsten, of course.