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Mike Murdock

 
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DesignDevil
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:59 pm    Post subject: Mike Murdock Reply with quote

So I've made no secret about my dislike for every involving Mike being made into an actual character. One thing that I keep pondering is, what does everyone think the "Endgame" is for Mike?

I've seen the theory that he will be the one who dies in Matt's place in whatever this story with the Hand that has to have either the King or Queen die. That seems probable, yet predictable.

Will he just go off into obscurity at the end like he did in Soule's run until another writer decides to use him again? Will Matt's "real" history get restored and Mike completely erased somehow?

I know there's something being done with Mike and Fisk's new son and their scheming. This holds zero interest to me for so many reasons, but it tells me Chip has some longterm plans here.

My doomsday prediction: Mike dies tragically as this sacrifice or whatever to the Hand so Matt doesn't have to. But the altered history remains intact, so from here on out Mike is a part of Matt's story. Going forward, Mike's death will be a driving factor in Matt's guilt and him being constantly a depressed mopey asshole*. Going forward, any flashback to DD's origin will include Mike. Mike will be inserted into older stories via flashback. Oh, Kingpin just blew up Matt's brownstone, well here's Mike to rub it in his face.

If that happens, I'll be done with the book. I've been reading Daredevil since the 90s, and this will absolutely make me drop the character. That's how much this irks me. Some reading this may be thinking, "great. don't let the door hit you on the way out." and that's fine. Sometimes a character just stops working for a reader. I stopped reading Batman years ago and moved on to other characters. Sorry for the rant.

*And I really wish writers would allow Matt to be something other than a mopey whiney asshole on occasion. And maybe he and Foggy behave and talk as friends who actually like each other again. Maybe even work together again. The book doesn't have to perpetually try to be like the Netflix show.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike Murdock Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
So I've made no secret about my dislike for every involving Mike being made into an actual character. One thing that I keep pondering is, what does everyone think the "Endgame" is for Mike?

I've seen the theory that he will be the one who dies in Matt's place in whatever this story with the Hand that has to have either the King or Queen die. That seems probable, yet predictable.

Will he just go off into obscurity at the end like he did in Soule's run until another writer decides to use him again? Will Matt's "real" history get restored and Mike completely erased somehow?

I know there's something being done with Mike and Fisk's new son and their scheming. This holds zero interest to me for so many reasons, but it tells me Chip has some longterm plans here.

My doomsday prediction: Mike dies tragically as this sacrifice or whatever to the Hand so Matt doesn't have to. But the altered history remains intact, so from here on out Mike is a part of Matt's story. Going forward, Mike's death will be a driving factor in Matt's guilt and him being constantly a depressed mopey asshole*. Going forward, any flashback to DD's origin will include Mike. Mike will be inserted into older stories via flashback. Oh, Kingpin just blew up Matt's brownstone, well here's Mike to rub it in his face.

I share your frustration about Mike. It's the worst thing Charles Soule pulled off during his otherwise decent run. I hope Mike dies, as you described, but I hope something happens with the Norn stones so we don't have to have this altered history. Unfortunately, I sense that Zdarsky has an idea for Butch that he'd like to try to execute. I'm really loving Zdarsky's run, so I'm willing to see what his plans are.
RGdesigner wrote:
If that happens, I'll be done with the book. I've been reading Daredevil since the 90s, and this will absolutely make me drop the character. That's how much this irks me. Some reading this may be thinking, "great. don't let the door hit you on the way out." and that's fine.

I don't foresee myself dropping the book, because, as I typed, I'm really enjoying Zdarsky's run. The last time I dropped the book was during Bendis' run, because I couldn't stand his writing. If I'm enjoying the writing and I love the character, I'll stick around.
RGdesigner wrote:
Sometimes a character just stops working for a reader. I stopped reading Batman years ago and moved on to other characters. Sorry for the rant.

Out of curiosity, what made you drop Batman?
RGdesigner wrote:
*And I really wish writers would allow Matt to be something other than a mopey whiney asshole on occasion. And maybe he and Foggy behave and talk as friends who actually like each other again. Maybe even work together again. The book doesn't have to perpetually try to be like the Netflix show.

I think Waid's run succeeded in showing Matt as something other than mopey. I personally loved Volume 3, but thought the quality dropped off precipitously when Matt and Kirsten relocated to San Francisco.
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macjr33
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike Murdock Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
So I've made no secret about my dislike for every involving Mike being made into an actual character. One thing that I keep pondering is, what does everyone think the "Endgame" is for Mike?

I've seen the theory that he will be the one who dies in Matt's place in whatever this story with the Hand that has to have either the King or Queen die. That seems probable, yet predictable.


I think that this is the most likely scenario. I also think that Zdarsky needed a way for Matt to be in jail without exposing his identify so Soule gave him a way to do that.

RGdesigner wrote:
I know there's something being done with Mike and Fisk's new son and their scheming. This holds zero interest to me for so many reasons, but it tells me Chip has some longterm plans here.


Much like Dimetre, I am really enjoying this run (minus the whole Matt Murdock thing) and I trust Zdarsky has a payoff for all of this so I willing to see it through

RGdesigner wrote:
My doomsday prediction: Mike dies tragically as this sacrifice or whatever to the Hand so Matt doesn't have to. But the altered history remains intact, so from here on out Mike is a part of Matt's story. Going forward, Mike's death will be a driving factor in Matt's guilt and him being constantly a depressed mopey asshole*. Going forward, any flashback to DD's origin will include Mike. Mike will be inserted into older stories via flashback. Oh, Kingpin just blew up Matt's brownstone, well here's Mike to rub it in his face.


I don't think that Mike will be ingrained in DD history and even if it does all the next writer needs to do is find a way to revert it back.

RGdesigner wrote:
If that happens, I'll be done with the book. I've been reading Daredevil since the 90s, and this will absolutely make me drop the character. That's how much this irks me. Some reading this may be thinking, "great. don't let the door hit you on the way out." and that's fine. Sometimes a character just stops working for a reader. I stopped reading Batman years ago and moved on to other characters. Sorry for the rant.


I am curious when in the 90's did you start reading the book because some of the stories in the 90's are BAD, even some of the best issues from the 90s are not as good as the worst of Zdarsky's run in my opinion.

RGdesigner wrote:
*And I really wish writers would allow Matt to be something other than a mopey whiney asshole on occasion. And maybe he and Foggy behave and talk as friends who actually like each other again. Maybe even work together again. The book doesn't have to perpetually try to be like the Netflix show.


As Dimetre also pointed out, Waid's run showed another side of Matt. He was having fun being a hero, probably the best showing of his friendship with Foggy, flirting with the Black Cat and in a stable and healthy relationship with Kirsten. This was especially needed after the Shadowland disaster. While I did enjoy Volume 3 more, I love Waid's entire run overall and it's right behind Bendis for me in my favorite all time DD runs.

I also love that Zdarsky brough Kirsten back and I am hoping there is a bigger purpose for it as well. With Karen being dead, she is the best love interest for Matt. Although I have had this idea in the back of my head that Zdarsky may find a way to bring Karen back as well.

I get your frustration; however, I think we need to see how this all plays out. Zdarsky clearly has a long term plan so I am curious to see how it plays out.
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DesignDevil
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may not have been clear. I'm sticking around until at least the end of Zdarksy's run. I want to see where this is going too, and hopefully he will undo the Mike thing. I was saying that if Zdarsky concludes his run (whenever that is) with Matts history still altered, I would stop buying. I don't think the next writer would come along and undo something like that. Marvel threw out 25 years of Spiderman's history (that now no longer makes sense) and never looked back, and he is their flagship character. Do you think they really care about Daredevil's history that much?

I hope Zdarksy can pull a rabbit out of the hat with all this. But when he's done, if he leaves it so that Matt now remembers having a twin brother his whole life, that fundamentally changes the character to me. I'm not interested in reading this new character, as we now have a rebooted version with a history that does not and cannot match up to the one we've all read. And I hope everyone else keeps reading and enjoys it.

I'll keep reading Daredevil. I've got 2 and 1/2 longboxes and a shelf full of trades and hardcovers if I ever want to go on an adventure with Daredevil again. I just won't buy new issues.

Like I said, I did it with Batman years ago and also X-Men years before that. I've also come back to X-Men with Hickman's stuff, so you never know what the future will hold. To answer the question about Batman, I just didn't like the growing numbers of sidekicks and supporting characters. Also for my preference Batman has become way too high-tech and permanently a dick. He's basically Tony Stark with a cape.

And to answer another question about the 90s. I started reading comics in 1992. I started becoming familiar with Daredevil around 96 when a friend loned me trades of Elektra's Death and Last Rites. I actually started reading regularly with Guardian Devil. From 1998-2003 I jumped into the deep end, reading everything I could and collecting back issues. I know there's ups and downs with any book. Every era has it's gold and it's garbage. Sometimes in the same run. Looking at you Mark Waid, and now Chip Zdarsky.

Actually what's gong on right now reminds me of Shadowland. Diggle started off great. There was that great little arc where Matt goes to Japan (with ironically art by Marco Checchetto) and then the next issue all logic and sense got thrown out so they could have Shadowland be this big gimmick with lots of hype and tie-ins and everyone acting completely out of character. Right now it seems like Marvel and Zdarksy were only concerned with selling out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd printings of issue 25 with all the headlines about Elektra. So they hammered a square peg into a round hole by any means necessary to make that happen.
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGdesigner wrote:
Right now it seems like Marvel and Zdarksy were only concerned with selling out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd printings of issue 25 with all the headlines about Elektra. So they hammered a square peg into a round hole by any means necessary to make that happen.

I feel that King In Black is something we just have to endure to get back to the story Zdarsky really wants to tell. This crossover is something that has come from on high, and Zdarsky is being a good soldier and doing the best he can with these tie-in issues. I don't think he's one of the main architects of King in Black, whereas I think Diggle was one of the main minds behind Shadowland, and I hold him much more responsible for the disaster that turned out to be. Shadowland also seemed to be the end goal of Diggle's entire run, where I see King in Black as this stupid little detour Zdarsky was forced to take.
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Thayrone Ibsen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the decision behind the total mess which was "Shadowland" also came from above, at least in the sense of making it a "Marvel event" (and since who now knows when, that's a bad thing to hear/read). I recall, for example, Diggle saying in an interview that "Reborn" was going to be published in regular magazine form, but nooo, Marvel wouldn't have that. If we assume that "Shadowland" was all on Diggle's shoulders, then the BRILLIANT idea of continuing the series with the same numbering (afterwards changed) with Black Panther "the man without fear" could just as well be his idea too. No. I don't think "SL" would be much better if focused only in DD books (maybe slightly), but it had bigger hands behind the decisions.

Sorry, really not what the thread is about, but as bad decisions go (and this one was mentioned right above), I thought I'd add my miserable two cents.
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Thayrone Ibsen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: my last post

Quote:
A lot of the time, when you’re working on big titles with the big publishers, there will quite often be a lot of following set editorial edicts. With Daredevil, Marvel said to me, “O.K. … there’s going to be this big crossover called “Shadowlands” where Matt Murdock is going to take control of The Hand, and they’re going to build a giant castle in the middle of Manhattan”, and I’m like, “O.K. … but you know the Avengers live just down the road from here, right?” (we both laugh out loud) “Oh, don’t worry about them!”


https://dccomicsnews.com/2019/08/02/dcn-exclusive-interview-andy-diggle-writer-of-green-arrow-year-one-swamp-thing-and-batman-confidential/



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DesignDevil
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't just talking about the King in Black tie-in. Everything since issue 21 has just felt rushed and very badly written with no regard for logic of any character's intelligence.

We got an entire issue of Matt hitting on bookstore girl followed by a long drawn out discussion between Matt and her mafia family on the socio-political nature of the law and the world, but the trial of Daredevil was four pages. All the pertinent dealings and details happened off panel between scenes of Matt moping about while everyone **** all over him, because who wants to read about courtroom intrigue in a book about a lawyer I guess.
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