Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


DD Book Club - The Outsider
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Daredevil Message Board Forum Index -> The comics
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: DD Book Club - The Outsider Reply with quote

Well, I'm back from my honeymoon and I haven't read a comic book in two weeks. They recently put up the final block of Nocenti's run so that seemed like as good a place as any to go to next. I suppose I could say it's good timing with the comics right now with the return of Bullseye.

Daredevil Vol. 1 #284 - Who is the Man in Black?

Quote:

An amnesiac Daredevil takes on the identity of Jack Murdock in order to piece together the present. Bullseye catches on to Matt’s weakened state though, and he’s zooming in for a kill…


Due 9/25
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fubarthepanda
Flying Blind


Joined: 01 Jul 2020
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats, Mike!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, appreciate it. It's definitely weird being back to real life (or as close to real life as a comic book can be).

The premise of this story is Matt Murdock snaps and ends up with amnesia. Given where his depression leads him in Born Again, I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and accept this. However, the issue previously makes this harder to accept because it should logically have happened right away and not be delayed. I've also read the Captain America story Streets of Poison that also takes place at the same time and it's harder to fit in as well. Still, it's necessary to accept for this story, so I'm willing to go along with the ride and see what happens. It is interesting that the first thing he struggles to accept (leaving aside a crazy typical Nocenti logic) is that hell and the devil aren't real. This seems inconsistent with Kevin Smith's Daredevil. Personally, I'm willing to accept that his religious beliefs strengthened and weakened over time and, like most Catholics, he pays lip service to the more supernatural beliefs but isn't necessarily convinced by them (also, let's face it, Kevin Smith played up that angle far more than anyone had before).

At the same time as DD's losing his mind, there's a guy trying to mug a woman (and possibly sexually assault her?) and he's doing such a bad job she can't take him seriously. It's kind of played for laughs, which is odd, but I can't deny that it's oddly fun. When Daredevil intervenes, he gets knocked down with one punch, which the bad guy is thrilled about.

There's also a guy breaking into a place to steal. I wonder who he could be? Whoever he is, his aim is pretty good. I kid since I know the answer. Visually, he looks like Bullseye (before the Ben Affleck movie and Brian Bendis turned him into a bald guy) and, later, the coin trick pretty much confirms it. When they confront each other, it's clear that Daredevil has completely lost his memory and disassociated from himself. Bullseye realizes he looks familiar but can't quite place who he is (sort of make sense, he knew Murdock and suspected him of Daredevil before believing the theory was disproven and Matt has a beard he didn't have before). The story ends with Matt wearing Bullseye's outfit.

Overall, this is a very well-paced issue that balances the various stories effectively. You have to accept the premise of Matt losing his mind in a way that doesn't fit real psychology, but I think the writing itself is very good. Four and a Half Stars.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dimetre
Wake Up


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Mike Murdock!

Is anyone else having difficulty getting this issue to load up on Unlimited?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It loaded OK for me. If you're using the app, maybe try updating it. If you're on a computer, maybe it's a browser issue? I loaded it on Firefox.

I'll hold off a bit longer before posting the next part.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 1 #285 - The Shadowman

Quote:
Daredevil returns to New York City -- but instead of rebuilding his life, the decision could destroy it!


Due 10/2
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give my thoughts on the second issue and, hopefully, people can catch up.

This issue starts with Ann Nocenti at her most philosophical. The discussion telegraphs where she's going with this - with a discussion of what it means to be a hero. If you missed last issue, you might be confused with Daredevil swinging in the sky and Matt Murdock in a baseball cap looking down below. He's lost his memory and is wandering down the street. Without his clear moral compass, he's less certain about whether it's ok to steal if you're hungry. At the same time, Daredevil is committing petty crimes.

There's also some exploration of racism with the racists who accuse a black Judge of being biased. They attack him. The whole time he's being beat up, he thinks about how a fancy dinner for Nelson Mandela with celebrities had made him think we had made progress on racism. The Judge's story is probably the best part. For starters, I wish it didn't feel as timely as it still does. Second, his interaction with his son makes for a wonderful highlight of the themes of Daredevil - of justice and vigilantism.

Continuing this theme, Matt meets Nyla Skin (whose name is not subtle at all). She spray paints an outline of Matt's shadow but with devil horns. She also is a thief but only steals from the rich (something, coincidentally, "Daredevil" is doing at the moment). The issue then ends way too abruptly.

I have to give credit to Lee Weeks' art. He's only on this arc very shortly but he makes a mostly talking issue look absolutely beautiful. He comes back for Chichester's early run, but I would have loved him to have stayed longer.

I'll give this Four Stars. I think the Judge's story is the most interesting part, but it definitely is very heavy handed and dialogue heavy.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people want me to switch to a different story? I can go back to this on a later date if it's easier. This story is currently scheduled to go through this month.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll try to keep going, but let me know if you want to switch to a different story.

Daredevil Vol. 1 #286 - The Thief

Quote:

Bullseye becomes a no-good, thieving Man Without Fear! Matt starts a new career… in the boxing ring.


Due 10/9
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dimetre
Wake Up


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally Unlimited is working again for me. I have no idea what happened.

Here are my thoughts about #284.

This marks the debut of the great Lee Weeks as Daredevil penciller. This is somewhat rougher than what I expect from him, but it fits in nicely with past Daredevil greats like Frank Miller and Klaus Janson. Not overly detailed, but clear enough to show what's going on while having an excellent flow of action from panel to panel.

The story itself is weird, which is some place writer Ann Nocenti is always willing to go. She has frequently played games with Daredevil's sanity, and that's certainly true here. He's "seeing" everyone around him with angel wings and devil horns, and they're multiplying around him. I was kind of surprised that Daredevil didn't seem to realize that he was blind, but then later on in the issue he admits to a pub full of people that he is, in fact, blind. It's not the easiest issue to follow.

I think this is the first story Nocenti has written with Bullseye. It's an interesting take on him. Nocenti's Bullseye has a strange pre-occupation with income inequality, musing about economic redistribution and how a Rembrandt painting could feed many families. By now we're well aware that Nocenti likes to include a social message in every issue -- I'm just surprised she's using Bullseye to do it.

I'm curious where this is going, but the opening section with Daredevil wandering around thinking to himself was a bit of a slog. The Babyface gangster portrayed like Edward G. Robinson teaming up with other thugs resembling the Three Stooges was momentarily amusing, but then it got old.

The weirdest moment for me was when Daredevil showed no awareness that his real name was Matt Murdock, but called himself Jack. This is years before "Tree of Knowledge" when he would take on the Jack Batlin identity. This caught me by surprise.

I'm guessing that as Nocenti goes on, it's going to become clearer what the effect the trip through hell had on his head. This is strange though. I give #284 a three out of five.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dimetre
Wake Up


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found #285 much less confusing than #284, and therefore more enjoyable. It's established from the beginning of the issue that Matt doesn't know who he is, so this story is clearly going to be about him figuring his identity out. At the same time Bullseye is masquerading as Daredevil and getting away with a lot because of it. This issue benefits from the lack of the previous issue's inconsistency.

Again, I'm loving Lee Weeks' artwork. I compared him to Frank Miller last issue, but I think John Buscema is a more accurate comparison.

Ann Nocenti does a nice job finding openings where she can insert some social commentary without stopping the narrative to do it. All the side characters in this story feel organic. I realize she's reaching the end of her time on Daredevil, but this feels like one of her best issues.

I really can't find much to criticize here. Maybe the model shouldn't be so willing to leave with Bullseye, but other than that, this is very good. I think this issue gets a 4.5 out of 5 from me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dimetre
Wake Up


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read #286 and I'm all caught up.

This issue sees Greg Capullo filling in for Lee Weeks on pencils, and I guess if I ever knew Capullo drew Daredevil, I had clearly forgotten. He has since gone on to be best known for his lengthy stints on Spawn and Batman. I liked his work here, even if it's less distinctive than his later work. If you didn't look at the credits you'd likely think that these were still Weeks' pencils.

Once the opening dream sequence is over, the issue benefits from the story picking up in the place we last left it. Matt doesn't remember who he is even though that dream sequence gave him some clues, but he's not interpreting the dream correctly. He joins Nyla in a theft, and Ann Nocenti does a great job showing his skills, powers and intelligence and how it would turn him into a master thief if he chose that road. However, his morality rears its head, and he tells Nyla that if everybody stole from the ultra-rich and redistributed those goods to the needy, there would be anarchy.

The oddest thing about what Nocenti is doing thematically is that she continues to use Bullseye as a vessel for the theme of income inequality. It's very easy to get on board with Nyla when she talks about the injustice of legal scams and how people are flipping burgers for $3.50 an hour, but when Bullseye echoes her message in a different scene, that's a different matter. He may be making a good point, but he's still Bullseye. Perhaps Nocenti's choice to use him this way may make more sense at this story's end.

I also liked Marcus' verbal takedown of Matt when he tries to calm him down by saying, "Think of your father." Matt has a good point. Marcus' actions against the murderous goons go against everything his father ever preached, but Nocenti has done a great job showing the different existences between black and white Americans in this story. Marcus is correct in saying Matt can't possibly understand his perspective and the day-to-day injustice in which he lives. And that's particularly true when it comes to Matt's current headspace.

I'm not sure where this story is going with Matt becoming a boxer, but I'm willing to see. There probably was a better and more climactic way to end this issue.

But this is another very strong issue. This is some of my favourite work by Nocenti, and I like the art by Weeks, and now Capullo. I'm giving this another 4.5 out of 5.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The opening to this issue is weirder than the average Nocenti story. It quickly recovers back to normal. Matt agrees to help Nyla steal from a Wall Street broker but quickly has a change of heart. It is fun to see him uses his senses for crime and just how easy it would be. It becomes apparent, memories or no, that his moral views remain the same.

I love the scene with the Judge's son playing "scare the white folk." It's a good example of subconscious racism and how it plays out to make someone feel unwelcome without anything overt. Unfortunately, the next scene is the explicit racism. I did not expect the Judge to get murdered. It was shown pretty shockingly as well. It's also pretty surprising that it doesn't have a resolution. The son seems about to have some revenge and then the scene ends. I'm not sure what to make of that. I guess it depends on whether it resumes next issue.

Bullseye as Daredevil spouting Robin Hood theories about how he's the honest thief is weird. He's a weird dude who does seem to want to justify his work from time to time so I can sort of buy it, but it definitely seems like he's being used as a mouthpiece.

The artist for this issue is Greg Capullo. I had no idea he was around back then. Definitely miss Lee Weeks, though.

This story is exploring some complex themes of race without any easy answers. In that part, it shines. However, it does seem to be a bit meandering at times. I'll give it Four Stars but I hope it'll pick up the pace soon.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daredevil Vol. 1 #287 - The Fighter

Quote:

A “reformed” Bullseye attempts the heroic path less travelled. Matt Murdock is identified as a boxer by his most persistent enemy…


Due 10/16
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Murdock
Hardcore


Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 1579

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue starts with "Daredevil" robbing a bank. I think this story makes the most sense as Bullseye trying to defame the name of Daredevil. That's why he's taking the money and just throwing it overboard. I love his glee as he takes a rattle from a baby to kill (?) a police officer.

Next, we see Matt in the ring fighting blind folded. In the audience is the Kingpin. In Born Again, Fisk thinks Matt is faking being blind. In Bendis's run, he seems to know that he's blind but has supersenses. It occurs to me that maybe this is where he realizes that the blindness isn't an act. At the end of the issue, we get a development between Matt and Nyla as he nonchalantly points out that he can't see color and she realizes that he can't see her race. It isn't commented on beyond that, but it's clear her being black and accepted for being black is important to her while completely irrelevant to him.

There are two other plots. The first is the Daily Bugle. Ben Urich is trying to establish that this Daredevil is fake. It's kind of sad that they bump the headline that a Judge was murdered when Daredevil's girlfriend comes in. It's good to see Foggy. We really haven't seen him since he represented that company controlled by Fisk. It's great to see he's working hard on restoring Matt's name (the plot was set up perfectly for him to resolve this, I hate that Chichester ended up having SHIELD pull a few strings instead).

The other plot is that of the Judge's killer. The son is trying to solve it, but Matt does instead. In his dream, Stick tells him to use violence with kindness. I do think that's fundamentally one of the things Nocenti's been arriving at. She's explored themes of whether violence just begets more violence and is fundamentally unjust and is finally arriving at the point that Daredevil's violence is used for a good purpose. That when he uses violence to help people and achieve good rather than just to vent his anger, he's helping his community.

Four and a Half Stars. I enjoyed this one quite a bit despite being very different. It did a good job of juggling all the stories, developing the themes, and moving the plot forward.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Daredevil Message Board Forum Index -> The comics All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group