Daredevil Message Board

[Stephan]

I reiterate - #93 was a remarkable work, and Brubaker has done a prodigious job thus far. The secret identity revelation story was interminably long, and it was time to bring it to a close. It was becoming monotonous. Matt was incarcerated for Heaven's sake - what more could possibly transpire? The protagonist was imprisoned, and paid the ultimate price for the disclosure of his secret identity! What more could be done? Matt has endured more agony and experienced more hardship than any comic icon in history! It's time to give him a breather! If unending, perpetual suffering amuses you, purchase another comic. #93 was the denouement of the secret identity saga, and it was both welcome and necessary.

Carry on, Mr. Brubaker.

[fox_limbo]

Firstly, thanks for stopping in and posting here, again, Ed.

In my mind, the "re-set" is more than Matt getting back to practicing law (and the reuniting of Matt and Foggy). It is also about Matt being outted (like I said before, with Spider-Man and the business of Civil War, it has made the concept of a superhero losing control of his public personae and the lingering purgatory of the "secret" identity being made public knowledge and the ramifications with that) and the legal situations that would arise if a thing like this were to happen (and given that Matt's occupation is a lawyer, the legal sensitivity to this would be amplified, I would think). I felt that Matt being outted was the equivilant of "Spider-Man Menace", during the Stan Lee / Steve Ditko days, where every step the character made was under the microscope and scrutinized, and he had to duck from authority figures. That situation is similar to the situation that Matt faces (or more aptly put, had faced). With all the recent developments, there is now doubt in the idea that Matt Murdock is Daredevil. Granted, it was never outright spelled out, but the "urban legend" of the Blind Lawyer / Vigilante was certainly palpable and, I felt, could still have a number of stories being told within that template / backdrop. Now that there is concrete doubt about the idea of Matt being Daredevil, the idea (in the public conscious, both in the book and the Readers of the title) will fade. There was no real conscenquence of it, the character came out of it unscathed, and arguably, may not have learned a thing from it.

The Daredevil, now, is re-set to where he was, full-circle. And the events of Bendis's run are now rendered inconsequential (some Readers may actually applause this fact).

That's my argument on the "re-set" issue, for better or worse.

Regardless, the way everything fell (back) together, and the way everything was handled, on both a concrete and visceral level, with all the characters in play. It has been an incredible ride. Thanks, Ed.

Rest assured, I am waiting for the next chapter....

[Stephan]

Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary defines mystique as "an aura of mystery or mystical power surrounding a particular occupation or pursuit." In my estimation, Brubaker is restoring the mystique of vigilantism. DD should be a mysterious, enigmatic, inscrutable figure who strikes terror into the hearts of NYC criminals. This is the essence of DD. Divulging DDs identity was a mistake, inasmuch as it robbed him of his mystique. Now, DD can become the scourge of the underworld he once was.

[fox_limbo]

I can see what you're saying Stephan, but I'm not sure if I completely agree with it.

Sure, part of the Daredevil mystique may be the mystery of the man behind the mask. But I'm not so sure that Matt being pin-pointed as the man that occupies the crimson tights, despite the public unmasking in the bar (which, it has been stated that the lighting of the bar obscured the identification of the face, specifically) almost seemed to amplify the "ghostly" quality of Daredevil.

No, seriously, hear me out. People may completely disagree with me, but that's fine.

Matt Murdock was ambushed by the Yazuka, still the onlookers and the passers-by could not identify the man that faught like hell, itself. Even the FBI trailed him and he slipped through their grasp. The "ghostly" quality of Daredevil had been amplified. Matt Murdock and Daredevil, synonimously became urban legend. And with that, I feel the mystique of the character was re-interpreted and re-defined.

But, again, that's just me.

[Ed Brubaker]

[Stephan]

Fox asserted:

[rgj]

B+.


Great conclusion. Matt took Vanessa's deal but the man did it for her (penance for what he and Wilson had done to her), not for his own selfish reasons. Matt had his life back without freeing Wilson, but it was his sense of honor, duty and nobility that he help Fisk. He put Vanessa's feelings and memory over his own wishes. That is Matt Murdock. Matt stripping KP's citizenship is a nice book end to KP once stripping Matt of his liscence to practic law (you know, it that great tale by Miller).

I totally disagree with the "re-set" assertion by fox and Dave Wallace. The one reporter's question about Matt killing the FBI director makes it crystal clear that some will still be suspicious of Matt. And, Ed Brubaker is right, Matt has to be a lawyer again. That's not a re-set, that's . . . just right. Matt being a lawyer is just as important as he wearing the DD costume.

I totally disagree with Stephan about Matt mourning Karen too much. No post-Karen's death writers have come close to having Matt really mourn her. The "mental breakdown" (and, fox limbo, I think that Matt did have a bit of an episode as this is why he went over the top and declared himself the new Kingpin) didn't even come close to Matt confronting his sorrow for her loss. Brubaker was the first one to really touch upon Matt's feelings regarding Karen, and IT'S ABOUT TIME someone did it. Brubaker handled it perfectly. I loved the "Both, usually" line during Matt and Foggy's converastion. Oh, and Stephan, Karen WAS Matt's true love (harlot or not).

The reunion with Foggy did seem a bit anti-climactic and rushed (especially, because of what Matt's been through). But, that's fine. And, I'm glad that Becky has joined the team. I also hope that Dakota stays on board.

The interaction between Matt and Wilson was wonderful. Matt making Wilson understand what they had done to Vanessa gave us an glimpse to a semblance of humanity that is left in Fisk (just as Bru did with Punisher when he came to help Matt in prison). His sorrow at her gravestone was touching (and a bookend to Matt at Elektra's gravestone). Sure, I'm sure KP will be back one day, but I hope it's not by Brubaker. Too many writers play with Frank Miller's toys. I think that Bru is the kind of writer that could forge new toys for DD's sandbox. I, for one, hope that Bru cleans up DD's rogues gallery and makes them more relevant.

I literally just finished reading the story. So, I may need more time to digest this tale and read it a couple more times. But, what can I say, I'm impressed thus far.

rgj

[fox_limbo]

[fox_limbo]

In hindsight, I suppose I have been clinging too tightly to the idea of Matt Murdock being elected into office as a District Attourney. With the storm spiraling around Matt Murdock, he has been viewed as the champion of the people. Why not completely accept the mantle? I felt Matt being D.A. was the next logical step, the next evolution of the character.

People had argued this notion before. It was pointed out that Matt couldn't be elected to that position because of his "crimes" as Daredevil. We can see, because of the doubt that has been placed in the public perception abd the fact that Matt had gotten his law liscense back, this is no longer an obsticle... and I did not see it as one from the start.

People argued that if Matt would be the D.A., and Daredevil, he would be burning the candle at both ends. My rebuttal to that is: isn't he already doing that?

The Daredevil mythology is more than about the crimson tights. It is also about Matt Murdock, as his own character (just as Spider-Man is more than the tights that is warn. The Hulk is more than a green brute).

It appears being attourney is who he is. It is his purpose, depite my hanging onto an idea of being more; I saw him being a monolithical presence, more than the "urban legend" and more than an "ordinary" attourney.

But I digress.

[Stephan]

[rgj]

[Stephan]

Kelly did suggest that Matt and Karen's relationship was troubled and under a strain (Matt was suddenly captivated by the Black Widow, while Karen was enchanted with a co-worker). In fact, many DD scribes have touched upon this (Ann Nocenti comes to mind). But Kevin Smith, in particular, cast doubt upon the depth of their relationship. Karen's final words: "Matt...I lo - I'll miss you." Her words were pregnant with meaning - and though she she was at death's door, I believe she chose them carefully.

[rgj]

Well, to be fair, under Nocienti, Matt was being manipulated by Typhoid's powers. And, Kevin Smith?? Are you serious, Stephan? Kevin "freakin'" Smith!? I'm not even going to dignify that. Let's see. I give examples that include: Stan Lee, Frank Miller, Dan Chichester, Jeph Loeb and Ed Brubaker. You say, Kevin Smith??

Check please!

rgj



Even Kevin is shocked by this.

[Ed Brubaker]

Personally, I think Matt is torn up about Karen and always will be. A lot of people have that one relationship in their past that no matter what they go on to, will always haunt them in some ways, and linger in the back of their mind.

And you know, mourning isn't an exclusive thing. You can mourn the loss of every person you cared for in completely different ways.

Also -- not a single person noticed that our main subtext the first two arcs were -- Matt's hearing, in Cell Block D, and Matt's sense of smell, in Takes a Ride. I was so proud of that, so I'm pointing it out.
_________________
www.edbrubaker.com

[Stephan]

Was Typhoid truly responsible for Matt's actions, rgj? Or was the Matt/Karen relationship trouble-plagued to begin with? Matt himself harbored doubts, as I recall. Typhoid made a brief appearance in the "Streets of Poison" story in Captain America. Typhoid was stunned to discover that her powers had no impact on the Captain. Is Steve Rogers (who was under the influence of a drug at the time, and should have been vulnerable) simply more steadfast than Matt Murdock, or was Matt all-too-willing to be seduced? There were rifts in the Matt/Karen relationship during the Lee era, they were estranged in the Roy Thomas era, etc., etc. The Matt/Karen relationship was ill-starred and ill-fated from the outset.