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DareDevil #87 SPOILERS
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Darediva
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
Darediva wrote:
I was half right about my Foggiest notions: that he would be in a witness protection program somewhere sitting on a beach with a babe on either arm sipping pina coladas.

Instead he's with some hairy-legged Fed in the 'burbs of Philadelphia. Oh well.


Razz

Here's a thought, what if Foggy is actually in the hands of Matt's tormentor? How much more could you mess with Matt after making him think Foggy is dead then by revealing that he's actually alive but being tortured, etc.? I don't know if Brubaker is that cold, though.


I dunno...did you see the spoiler preview pages at

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=78460

for issue 88? That's a great teaser!
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DDmikeMN
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SSSSWOORD!!!

Let's not forget Elektra is in charge of The Hand right now. If those are Hand ninjas, there might be something to that.
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the truebeliever
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was an awesome arc. One of my faves and that's saying alot against most of Daredevil's history. I loved that Frank saved him from him self and prison. This shows that Frank is a hero and cares about another person that might end up like him if put over the edge. The Iron Fist personally wasn't much of a surprise and it felt kind of rushed with the aftermath of the reveal. Happy that Foggy is still alive and with how this will continue right into the next arc. Brian Micheal Bendis put Brubaker into a corner but Brubaker came out with flying colors.
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Gee
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Joined: 09 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this was another excellent issue, i am lovin the work of the bru! so much happened, if bendis was still in charge this issue would have been an arch of it own!

iron fist being the fake dd was good, it made sense, wonder who would have won the fight if it had continued?

foggy being alive was good as well, i think most of us thought he would be still alive mind you, gld tho as dd (as a title) would have lost too much had he been.

keep up the good work folks!
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was a very good first arc by Bru. And, the best I've read since Last Rites. This arc was better than anything in Volume 2. I argee with Clayton that this issue wasn't as good as Bru's last issue. But, it was a fine finale to a wonderful arc (and, the seeds to return Matt's secret identity, for the most part, at least--for the longest time I've said WHY hasn't the public [media] questioned Matt's imprisonment if DD is still out there . . . finally Bru has the public question that on television).

Still this issue wasn't perfect. (By the way, Master Meg, sometimes covers that show fighting, mean just that Rolling Eyes ) Anyway, I found it VERY ODD that Matt "recognized" Iron Fist only after he took his mask off and called Matt by his first name. Matt's senses (uh, IF's scent, the sound of his heartbeat) should have told him who it was without physical confronatation. Well, D.G. Chichester is still the best when it comes to writing from Matt's senses point of view.

Many speculated that Punisher was entering the prison to recuit Matt. But, what do you know, he actually went in to save Matt from becoming LIKE him. This is the closest thing we have seen which portrays Frank as actually caring about someone. Brilliant move by Bru. (And, Matt having Frank use him as a human shield, in order to also lend creedence to him not being DD is also brilliant). And, who did Frank pick for this generocity. The man who is the exact opposite of him. Most writers write Frank as a thoughtless killing machine. In this one issue, while Frank remains a killing machine and that's how we like him, we do get a semblance of a kind of remorse from Frank. He knows what he is. And, there is no going back. For him to want to stop Matt from crossing that line is the closest thing Frank can do to admitting that, perhaps, it was a line he shouldn't have crossed. Because once the line is blurred, or erased, there is no going back. The exchage between Matt and Frank as they exited the chopper was the greatest exchange (between these two contrasting characters) these two have ever had. Brilliant stuff by Bru.

As for the much anticipated (and predictable) Foggy reveal. I think it's still odd that Foggy would want to keep Matt in the dark about his "demise." Wouldn't Foggy know that Matt could be pushed over the edge with such news. Would Foggy really want to put Matt though that, and quite possilbly make Matt become potentially dangerous (Punisher like). And, Matt is on trial. Wouldn't Foggy WANT to come back and defend Matt in court. I would think that Foggy would risk his life (agian) for Matt and come back and defend him, even if that meant another attempt on his life. Wonder if Bru will flesh out Foggy's reasoning.

By the way, Matt's radar (sonar) should have picked up an empty coffin at the funeral.

Well, that's all for now. This was such a great issue, with so much stuff going on, I might have forgottend to mention somehting. But, all in all, an amazinly solid effort by Bru and Lark for there first arc.

Can't wait for the upcoming arcs and Matt's final confronation with Lennox.

rgj
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
By the way, Matt's radar (sonar) should have picked up an empty coffin at the funeral.


You're not the only one who thought that. I'll be interested to see if this is addressed next issue...

My review is up here by the way, for anyone who didn't see it on the frontpage:

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/115436702424150.htm
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe the ruse was so complete, that some poor John Doe from the morgue who vaguely resembled Foggy's physical shape got a first class burial courtesy of someone else? They would have had to have at least something HEAVY in the casket, or the pallbearers would have known it was empty. That's my guess.
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Blind Alley
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was easy to fool Matt's senses at the funeral :
- scent : changes after death
- face : Matt has to touch people to really recognize a face
- heartbeat : not possible with a corpse
- silhouette : the casket was closed and something or someone close to Foggy's size could be inside
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hekate32
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brubaker did make some attempt to offset Daredevil not immediately uncovering the imposter. There was the reference to the disorientation of his senses at being back in the city after so long just prior to him finding the fake Daredevil and then his own rage stopping him from focusing on what the imposter had to say. Tenuous maybe but does allow for the more dramatic impact of Daredevil and reader sharing in the recognition the moment Danny throws the Iron Fist.
Yes, Matt could've clocked him right off and skipped straight to the Danny? Matt? and instead more break-out footage or more Dakota (I do hope she sticks around) but I thought it worked fine and can overlook a little slip of Matt's senses for a nicely worked scuffle and reveal.
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hekate32 wrote:
Brubaker did make some attempt to offset Daredevil not immediately uncovering the imposter. There was the reference to the disorientation of his senses at being back in the city after so long just prior to him finding the fake Daredevil and then his own rage stopping him from focusing on what the imposter had to say. Tenuous maybe but does allow for the more dramatic impact of Daredevil and reader sharing in the recognition the moment Danny throws the Iron Fist.
Yes, Matt could've clocked him right off and skipped straight to the Danny? Matt? and instead more break-out footage or more Dakota (I do hope she sticks around) but I thought it worked fine and can overlook a little slip of Matt's senses for a nicely worked scuffle and reveal.


Well said, and I agree. Matt's internal dialogue showed where his head was at the moment, and he clearly was not focused on the imposter's heartbeat, voice, etc. Much better than just a one punch reveal. Go, Bru!
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I caught that, but c'mon . . .

There is truly no reason why Matt couldn't pick up that it was Danny. I think this is just an excuse to have a fight between these two and making it dramatic and all. As hekate32 says, tenuous at best. But, I forgive it because it was, overall, a great issue and arc. And, it's a comic, we need the drama and DD imposter "big reveal" would have been somewhat flat with a Matt-approching-Danny:

Matt: "Hey, Dan. I smelled you a block away. What's with the wearing my costume??"

But, c'mon guys, let's call a spade a spade.

rgj
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
I caught that, but c'mon . . .

There is truly no reason why Matt couldn't pick up that it was Danny. I think this is just an excuse to have a fight between these two and making it dramatic and all. As hekate32 says, tenuous at best. But, I forgive it because it was, overall, a great issue and arc. And, it's a comic, we need the drama and DD imposter "big reveal" would have been somewhat flat with a Matt-approching-Danny:

Matt: "Hey, Dan. I smelled you a block away. What's with the wearing my costume??"

But, c'mon guys, let's call a spade a spade.

rgj
Sure, why not? You even point out how flat it could have been. I have to say it was much better the way Bru wrote it, and he DID bother to put in that internal dialogue to give it more credibility. Without that, it would have just been total BS.
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fox_limbo
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a little late for this party... which seems to be the case with me, lately.

DD#86 was a read that sizzled. The intensity and the pace of it, from cover-to-cover, was ratcheted up to a very, very high level. I echo other people's sentiments that DD#86 was one of the single best issues of the entire Daredevil series, be that Volume 1 OR 2.

As fierce as DD#86 was, DD#87 felt anti-climactic. The reveal of Danny Rand came off as a bit forced and the portrayal of Dakota North being flanked by the three stooges in their investigation in the trail-gone-cold of Alton Lennox's previous whereabouts, as funny as Dakota's "I'm with two costumed superheroes and an investigative reporter and no one thinks to hit the re-print button of the fax machine" was quite hilarious, it still came off as an awkward mis-step. The infamous Foggy reveal was well done, but at least to me, a bit predictable... I mean c'mon, no one was going to kill Foggy. Ed Brubaker's comments of the status quo and "turning over the apple cart" comments in his very first Daredevil interview. There were some serious holes in his "death" that just didn't add up. Still, it was pretty well done by Ed Brubaker to write other supporting cast members to fill Foggy's place in the title. It ALMOST convinced me I was wrong on Foggy not being dead.

The only thing that really got a rise out of me was "Mike Murdock". That was a glimpse of absolute brillience. I loved it!

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DD#87 was a terrible issue. I'm not saying that at all. It was merely a good issue.

I was hoping that the "other" Daredevil was Marc Spectre, the Moon Knight... and hoping I was wrong on my initial gut-feeling of it being Iron Fist (but I'm not sure how they could fit that in the current continuity of his new on-going series) I was expecting something to help add to the depth of the Daredevil mythology, but the reveal of Danny Rand as the "other" Daredevil, as it makes perfect sense, comes off as rather ho-hum and boarder-line lame (esspecially given the way it was developed... the cliche "mis understood" skirmish between costumed folk and that fact that Matt really should have noticed it was Danny Rand behind the mask, even if his mind wasn't in the "right place" to focus, after the whirlwind of developments and all).

Then, there's that whole thing about people wishing Daredevil would be re-set in the past standard quo... and DD#87 being as close to a wish come true for those people.

Granted, the developments under Bendis and into the first Brubaker have been incredibly claustriphobic. But I felt, all-in-all, it was a very fresh, dynamic and new backdrop in the Daredevil stage. As much talk as there has been about following the ruts of old stories, the scope of the developments over the last few years have been very new for a super hero book. It helped to re-define the character. It revolutionized the monthly Marvel book. And now, things are threatening to slip back into the ruts of the old staus quo.

That is the most disappointing of it all.

Although, how exciting is to have Matt... er, Mike Murdock in Europe?!! I expect repreive from the recent "claustrophobic" mythology (as much as I really love the stifling tightness of it all). The vastness of the canvas that Brubaker can push pain onto is very exciting. It is soooooo open.

But I still have this hovering, ghostly cold feeling that the Daredevil mythology has now snapped back to its old mold. And that is truly sad.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff, fox.

But, I don't think things are going to slip back anywhere. You guys relaize that there have been some great stories in which not many people have connected Matt with DD. I think it's important to, eventually, have Matt not be thought of as Daredevil, especially where the public is concenred (let's see how Spidey deals with this in your face outing--no going back when you make it definitive). But, just because Joe Public is made to think otherwise, Bendis's outting has left many major players in the loop. Heck, Bulls alone knowing could be very annoying through out the years. So, don't write it off as re-setting the status quo.

Anyway, it's going to be nice to see Matt out of N.Y. for a while. Perhaps, he'll hook up with one of those European, bombshell, babes. As I said, it's going to be great to see Matt go after Lennox. Anyone here venture to guess who would want to do this to Matt??

fox wrote:
but the reveal of Danny Rand as the "other" Daredevil, as it makes perfect sense, comes off as rather ho-hum and boarder-line lame (esspecially given the way it was developed... the cliche "mis understood" skirmish between costumed folk and that fact that Matt really should have noticed it was Danny Rand behind the mask, even if his mind wasn't in the "right place" to focus, after the whirlwind of developments and all).


Thank you. I mean, for heaven's sake, Matt can focus on a pole behind Iron Fist and have the billy club richocet to strike Danny, yet he can't sense it's Danny. But, anyway, I guess we had to have an obligatory hero vs. hero misunderstanding. But, as I said, easy to look past considering this was a fantastic arc.


rgj
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hekate32
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who like me, have little patience or will-power and always want to open their presents early, I saw another four pages from next month's issue in an article at Silverbullet.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/115455253635890.htm
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