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What DON'T you want to see in DD
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rgj
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Joined: 29 Jul 2004
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Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: What DON'T you want to see in DD Reply with quote

Well, Bru is off to a wonderful start. Many have chimed in on what would be cool to see in the pages of DD. My quesiton is what DON'T you want to see in DD anytime soon?


My answer is: ELEKTRA. As you all probably know, I think that everything post-Miller regarding Elektra is utter crap. Even Bendis did NOTHING for Elektra. In fact, Bendis made a huge mistake saying Elektra betrayed Matt to Kingpin. That was Bendis's worst error, so much so that I really think the Murdock Paper's is pretty much a weak story because of it's faulty foundation. So, yeah, no Elektra anytime soon.

I also don't want to see Spider-man anytime soon. Seems to me that Matt and Pete's friendship has pretty much been one sided--that of the Daredevil writers expanding on the friendship while Spider-man writers pretty much ignore Matt's significance as it pertains to Peter.

rgj
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james castle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baby Karen/Stick. Why? Because it's the worst idea of all time. That's why.
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NYC! Razz
Just kidding, but I am VERY excited for an overseas adventure!

My real list would be:
Iron Man & Civil War (Just keep DD as a safe haven from the shallow Marvel hype events.)

Kingpin and Bullseye

Nuke

Bushwacker

Jester
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Pete
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What DON'T you want to see in DD Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
My quesiton is what DON'T you want to see in DD anytime soon?


Umm..

1. DD vs Galactus

2. reading the credit 'Written by Gerry Conway'

3. Reading the cover and seeing ' The Senses-Shattering Return of Angar The Screamer ! Part One Of Five '

4. Seeing the solicit ' It's DD's action - packed 100th issue!! Brought to you from Marvel in conjunction with 20th Century Fox! With special Guest Editor...Gary Foster! (see, I'd get the far superior directors cut edition instead Very Happy )

5. Wading alongside Matt through some dense and dangerous situations, with his own and his loved ones lives on the line, getting to grips with the detailed and complex detective work, after weeks and months of angst and torture, only to find the bleedin' Ringmaster was behind it all along.

6. Man-Bull.

7. Seeing Karen Page on the splash page, trying to wake Matt who's still in costume lain on the sofa after a hard nights swashbucking

Karen: 'Matt. Matt. Wake Up..You'll be late for court'

Matt: 'Uhh...K-Karen. Darling. (Embraces her). I've just had the most horrible dream.

(Picture page 2. Matt finally releases her from his embrace and she goes to make the coffee.

Karen: 'Hey, babe. If I get hugs like that first thing in the morning maybe you should have them more often. What could be so bad?'

Matt: 'Karen. It was awful. I dreamt Bob Gale was writing this stuff for six whole issues.' )

8. The Surgeon General

9. An Editors note: 'The next issue of DD features special guest writer Kevin Smith and is a Target tie in, and deals with the aftermath of the blockbuster events coming your way in Target #2, which should be in your local comic book store any day now! See ya' in thirty!

10. Armoured costumes.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maleev drawing fight scenes.
Maleev switching the positions of the characters appearing in a scene in every panel.
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What DON'T you want to see in DD Reply with quote

Pete wrote:
rgj wrote:
My quesiton is what DON'T you want to see in DD anytime soon?


Umm..

1. DD vs Galactus

2. reading the credit 'Written by Gerry Conway'

3. Reading the cover and seeing ' The Senses-Shattering Return of Angar The Screamer ! Part One Of Five '

4. Seeing the solicit ' It's DD's action - packed 100th issue!! Brought to you from Marvel in conjunction with 20th Century Fox! With special Guest Editor...Gary Foster! (see, I'd get the far superior directors cut edition instead Very Happy )

5. Wading alongside Matt through some dense and dangerous situations, with his own and his loved ones lives on the line, getting to grips with the detailed and complex detective work, after weeks and months of angst and torture, only to find the bleedin' Ringmaster was behind it all along.

6. Man-Bull.

7. Seeing Karen Page on the splash page, trying to wake Matt who's still in costume lain on the sofa after a hard nights swashbucking

Karen: 'Matt. Matt. Wake Up..You'll be late for court'

Matt: 'Uhh...K-Karen. Darling. (Embraces her). I've just had the most horrible dream.

(Picture page 2. Matt finally releases her from his embrace and she goes to make the coffee.

Karen: 'Hey, babe. If I get hugs like that first thing in the morning maybe you should have them more often. What could be so bad?'

Matt: 'Karen. It was awful. I dreamt Bob Gale was writing this stuff for six whole issues.' )

8. The Surgeon General

9. An Editors note: 'The next issue of DD features special guest writer Kevin Smith and is a Target tie in, and deals with the aftermath of the blockbuster events coming your way in Target #2, which should be in your local comic book store any day now! See ya' in thirty!

10. Armoured costumes.


Excellent top (or is it bottom?) ten list! Thanks for the laughs.
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt suffering yet another mental breakdown! That would truly be intolerable. Unless Matt is officially diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder or some such, there is no justification for this plot device ever being used again. Also: any further secret identity-related histrionics.

What does this long-standing DD devotee want to see? The return of Vanessa Fisk. Matt and Foggy practicing law. Ammo (or a comparable hoodlum). Willie Lincoln. Angela (if she and Matt are on speaking terms!). A resurrected Bont (whose obsession with Matt is reminiscent of Norman Osborn's Peter Parker fixation). Matt and Foggy practicing law. Kate. Richard Fisk (another resurrection). The Arranger (yet another resurrection). Did I mention Matt and Foggy practicing law?
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I omitted a few things I would like to see. Revelations concerning Maggie's past. Maltese (I appear to have a fondness for past members of Fisk's inner circle!). And lastly - Stick.
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Stephan. For someone who ranted on so about how brutal and violent the issues were with Bont in them, I cannot for any reason see why you would want to see him resurrected miraculously.

Quote:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:07 am
Hello there, David. The final sequence - wherein the venomous, vindictive Bont rains blows on an already battered, contused Matt - was particularly troubling. Matt had already been pulverized, for heaven's sake! This was wholly unnecessary and unwarranted. I often wonder if gratuitous violence is used by uninspired writers in lieu of actual dialogue and substance. Having Bont assault an already blood-spattered Matt for 3 (!) consecutive pages does not strike me as being especially creative.


So, a kinder, gentler Bont?
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Stephan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you noted, I objected strongly to the gratuitous violence (and unbelievable, unprecedented continuity errors) in the aforementioned storyline. But I have also noted (on innumerable occassions) in this forum that Bont was a compelling character, and that I would welcome his return. Forgive me, but what does one issue have to do with the other -?! Obviously, a storyline can be gripping without carnage and gore. At any rate, Matt has few (if any) foes who abominate and detest him the way Bont does. That in itself warrants his revival.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
Matt suffering yet another mental breakdown! That would truly be intolerable. Unless Matt is officially diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder or some such, there is no justification for this plot device ever being used again. Also: any further secret identity-related histrionics.

What does this long-standing DD devotee want to see? The return of Vanessa Fisk. Matt and Foggy practicing law. Ammo (or a comparable hoodlum). Willie Lincoln. Angela (if she and Matt are on speaking terms!). A resurrected Bont (whose obsession with Matt is reminiscent of Norman Osborn's Peter Parker fixation). Matt and Foggy practicing law. Kate. Richard Fisk (another resurrection). The Arranger (yet another resurrection). Did I mention Matt and Foggy practicing law?


One thing I don't want to see resurrections, I hate that comic book trope. No resurrections, Bont and Richard still dead, because dead means dead, damn it! also if Foggy isd witiness protection how would he pratice law again? Also wouldn't take awhile for Matt to reestablish his law career.
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Francesco
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
As you noted, I objected strongly to the gratuitous violence (and unbelievable, unprecedented continuity errors) in the aforementioned storyline. But I have also noted (on innumerable occassions) in this forum that Bont was a compelling character, and that I would welcome his return. Forgive me, but what does one issue have to do with the other -?! Obviously, a storyline can be gripping without carnage and gore. At any rate, Matt has few (if any) foes who abominate and detest him the way Bont does. That in itself warrants his revival.


Well, personally I didn't have particular problems with this presumed gratuitous violence in Golden Age. After all, it was coherent with the story (Bont's insanity and hatred towards Murdock).
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james castle
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was no gratuitous violence in Golden Age. The suggestion that there was is simply gratuitous bitching from a gratuitous troll.
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Darediva
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephan wrote:
As you noted, I objected strongly to the gratuitous violence (and unbelievable, unprecedented continuity errors) in the aforementioned storyline. But I have also noted (on innumerable occassions) in this forum that Bont was a compelling character, and that I would welcome his return. Forgive me, but what does one issue have to do with the other -?! Obviously, a storyline can be gripping without carnage and gore. At any rate, Matt has few (if any) foes who abominate and detest him the way Bont does. That in itself warrants his revival.



From the same thread, I again quote you:
Stephan wrote:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:04 pm
Hello, Fox. Your points are all well-taken, and you are entitled to your opinion. And it is unfortunate that brutality plagues our supposedly advanced society. The carnage and blood-letting in this series troubles me for a number of reasons. It was not merely violent; it was ruthless and sadistic. It was offensive and stomach-turning. Yes, Matthew has suffered mental breakdowns, been crushed by nefarious criminals and utterly defeated, etc., before. But with the possible exception of DD Vol. 1 #260 (which was appalling), no DD feature has ever been this objectionable.


I see no references to Bont as a "compelling character" here. Nor here:

Stephan wrote:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 am
Yes...but was that the objective of the writer in question, Eighties? Or did the wanton violence in this series stem from a lack of imagination and creativity? The conclusion, in particular, was sanguinary, brutal and...remarkably unfulfilling. Matt is mercilessly battered and his foe suffers an unspeakable fate, but critical issues are left unresolved. Bont was chiefly responsible for the untimely death of Matt's Father. Matt was never even afforded an opportunity to voice his rage and umbrage at this villan. The bloody conclusion was extraordinarily unsatisfying.


This is as close as you ever get, and that I find only once:
Stephan wrote:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:17 pm
Hello there, Clayton. Glad you are the current story. As I noted, Bont (who possesses the canniness of The Kingpin and is consumed by the vengefulness of Norman Osborn) is a fascinating villan, and a welcome addition to Matt's rogues gallery. But the scenario you described above is without PRECEDENT in comic book history. A writer purports to tell one tale, and fails to produce it. This, to my knowledge, has NEVER happened before. And it is NOT a happy portent. What's next? Will Bendis begin to contradict himself in every ISSUE?!


I could drag up a lot more quotes from you about violence and Bendis, but could not find "(on innumerable occassions)" where you said Bont was a compelling character, unless one = innumerable in your world.

what does one issue have to do with the other -?! The storyline that brought in Bont used Bont's cruelty and violence in his vendetta against Matt. That would certainly not be something that would just disappear from the man's personna. He would be a totally flat and uninteresting character if he had no big grudge match against Matt. Unless he got so skilled in prison that he could hack into Matt's bank records and disable his ATM card. Now THAT would really mess with Mr. Murdock!

No, Bont stays dead. Along with Richard Fisk.
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Dave Wallace
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Stephan on one thing though - I'd be interested to see Brubaker explore the legal angle of the character a little more. This was one of the major weaknesses of Bendis' otherwise-great run, in my opinion.
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