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DareDevil #88 SPOILERS
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: DareDevil #88 SPOILERS Reply with quote

What did everyone think of this issue?
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The artwork was breathtaking!

Also, Brubaker has a better grasp on the characters of DD than the vast majority of past DD writers. He managed to combine all the clumsiness of Foggy's character with the everyman guts that Foggy often shows and we know is always lurking beneath. Good stuff.

(However, with Meltzer back in the game, Brubaker is only the second best current comic scribe. ...Seriously people, read JLA #1, even if you've never picked up a DC book! Razz)

Good filler, one shot issue issue.

Now, I'm ready to be rocked by #89! Very Happy
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Dimetre
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: 88 Reply with quote

Quote:
(However, with Meltzer back in the game, Brubaker is only the second best current comic scribe. ...Seriously people, read JLA #1, even if you've never picked up a DC book! )


I don't know Meltzer, so I'm convinced that Brubaker is the best writer working with the medium at present. With #88 he got everything right with the Foggy character.

However, I guess I missed something while I wasn't reading Daredevil for 30something issues. When did Elektra become head of the Hand? Did it happen in the Daredevil series or Elektra? Also, how come the mafia knows Foggy is alive and Elektra knows Foggy is alive, but not Matt? I find it difficult to believe that with all of Matt's powers and abilities, that anyone could get this information before he could. I know he was in prison, but if the mafia knows, I think he could find out.

And with Daredevil going to Europe, it doesn't look like he's finding out anytime soon.
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hekate32
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another quality read and beautiful art from Mr. Aja. Nor did it strike me as a filler, managing as it did to keep the pieces in play and the plot bubbling along nicely. Foggy makes a great narrator, his monologue filled with concerns, angers and fears yet his humour and love for his friend shone through. It might not seem it but in some ways you're a lucky man Mr. Murdock. And that acrobatic escape through the window was very classy.

Another plus for me was to see ninjas being genuinely scary as opposed to being inept red-clad punchbags. Okay so they were up against generic mafia goons but it was all speed and shadows and gory efficiency (I winced at the severed hands shot). It's not the first time Foggy's been in a yellow cab and his life in Elektra's hands. One of the things I'm liking about Brubaker is his attention to the strands and his control of them. Elektra's last seen in the Murdock Papers jetting back to Japan having failed along with others to prevent his arrest. A new creative team might well have opted to allow those characters to disperse back to their own corners of the Marvel Universe but here we see an active response from Ms Natchios, one that doesn't require a gratuitous cameo, just a snazzy reference to the mistress. So now we've had Iron Fist and Elektra doing their bit, I'm hoping the Widow's not going to be a let down.

Dimetre, Elektra assumes command of the Hand in Millar's run on Wolverine which are collected in two trades in which she has a prominent role and is the only reason I got them though the actual take-over is only recounted in the epilogue. And at first I thought 'oh dear' but I liked her presence here without ever being on camera as it were. Unfortunately I read an interview with Bendis about New Avengers 26 (Scarlet Witch/Hawkeye), could've been at Newsrama, in which he said 27 was going to be a return to Japan and Echo/Ronin so it looks like Elektra and the Hand's next appearance will be being slapped around by the New Avengers and Taskmaster-lite. Ho hum.

Bit of a digression there, but as 'fillers' go this one rocked, lots of nice narrative that made all the flashback scenes work and not just be fluff (albeit beautifully drawn fluff).

As for the mafia knowing where Foggy was, when they're in the car staking out Foggy's place, one remarks about the boss talking to a lawyer who I assume is the mysterious Alton Lennox and my guess was they were there fulfilling a contract put out by the same dastardly individual, which could also explain Elektra's involvement though honestly people should by now stop offering her Murdock related assignments.

And another Daredevil issue without any mention of the Civil Bore. Woot!
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johndunbar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really enjoyed this one. It didn't have a filler feel to it, mainly because it took place in the current timeline of the story.

Loved the panels of the scenes from the past.
Loved the excellent feel Brubaker had for Foggy in his inner dialogue boxes.
Missed first person Matt, but I can deal since it was Foggy's issue.
Bring on Europe.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This issue was okay, but really not as good as I hoped. By the way, I agree that Elektra being the head of the Hand is ridiculous and it's even more idiodic that it happened in a frickin' Wolverine comic. I'm in a bit of a dilema. Love the Hand. Hate "Elektra" ("the post Miller"). I hope "Elektra" never appears in DD again. I find it strange that Elektra would go out of her way to help Matt with the Murdock Papers (an arc that Bendis made a huge illlogical error in regards to Elektra) and goes out of her way to protect Foggy yet she doesn't go out of her way to inform Matt that Foggy is still alive. Strange. A Brubaker blunder??

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
This issue was okay, but really not as good as I hoped. By the way, I agree that Elektra being the head of the Hand is ridiculous and it's even more idiodic that it happened in a frickin' Wolverine comic. I'm in a bit of a dilema. Love the Hand. Hate "Elektra" ("the post Miller"). I hope "Elektra" never appears in DD again. I find it strange that Elektra would go out of her way to help Matt with the Murdock Papers (an arc that Bendis made a huge illlogical error in regards to Elektra) and goes out of her way to protect Foggy yet she doesn't go out of her way to inform Matt that Foggy is still alive. Strange. A Brubaker blunder??

rgj


Well it might be harder for Elektra and the Hand to contact Matt than it was for them to contact Foggy, considering that Matt was in prison for the first Brubaker arc and is rushing off to Europe in the second arc. I mean what was Elektra going to do, bribe a guard to tell Matt this information. Elektra is liking on some most wanted lists so I doubt she can just visit him in prison in the normal fashion. Also considering Matt has been nuts recently he may not believe Elektra So unless Elektra and her ninjas were willing to break into prison, deal with the guards and inmates and convince a half crazed Matt of this information. I think it would be somewhat tricky for Elektra to tell Matt this information.

Anyway this Alton Lennox fellow seems pretty powerful if he has an FBI agent working for him. I wonder who he is.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MM wrote:
Well it might be harder for Elektra and the Hand to contact Matt than it was for them to contact Foggy, considering that Matt was in prison for the first Brubaker arc and is rushing off to Europe in the second arc. I mean what was Elektra going to do, bribe a guard to tell Matt this information. Elektra is liking on some most wanted lists so I doubt she can just visit him in prison in the normal fashion. Also considering Matt has been nuts recently he may not believe Elektra So unless Elektra and her ninjas were willing to break into prison, deal with the guards and inmates and convince a half crazed Matt of this information. I think it would be somewhat tricky for Elektra to tell Matt this information.


During the end of the 1st volume of DD, Elektra breaks into prison (she's a ninja for Christ's sake) to speak with an incarcerated Karen Page. Don't be an apologist. Getting into prison would be easy for her and her ninjas. As for the "half crazed" Matt (and you are assuming she knows he is "nuts") that's just grasping at straws. Heck, seems to me that Punisher (who got in prison the old fashion way) had no problem with Matt, in fact, Matt seemed rather sane (not wanting to "Kill") the whole time. Plain and simply, Bru could have easily had Elektra/the Hand tell Matt Foggy was alive. For heaven's sake, if Bru had written it differently, and HAD the ninja's secretly break into prison to tip off Matt, and someone complained that that would be impossible, I could actually hear you argue the other point Master Meg, "Hey, they're ninjas, they could easily get in undetected." What's happening here is that you are just trying to defend Brubaker. It's hilarious that when people love a writer (and, believe me, I really dig Brubaker) they CAN'T FIND ANY WRONG in them. This is exactly what happened with Bendis. People who loved him were sometimes apologists, even if his logic in storytelling was flawed sometimes. Hey, I can really love a writer, but that doesn't mean I can't scritinize his storytelling and give honest critizism. Anyway, whatever.

By the way, Master, who was involved with Foggy's kidnapping? Was it a government conspiracy? Didn't you say it would "never" be the FBI because that's so cliche? Ha. I can recall me hypothesizing (early in the arc) that it was the Feds and you went on about how it wasn't them (heck, you thought Foggy was dead anyway). Kind of like when I said Matt would fight the fake DD in the last issue because the cover indicated they might, and you went on about how covers are misleading in today's comics. Uh, yeah.

Heck, I've been so right (in guessing) about Bru's run that I'm beginning to fear that the master mind behind everything is, indeed, one George "Goober" Lindsay (aka. Alton Lennox). Shocked




rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
MM wrote:
Well it might be harder for Elektra and the Hand to contact Matt than it was for them to contact Foggy, considering that Matt was in prison for the first Brubaker arc and is rushing off to Europe in the second arc. I mean what was Elektra going to do, bribe a guard to tell Matt this information. Elektra is liking on some most wanted lists so I doubt she can just visit him in prison in the normal fashion. Also considering Matt has been nuts recently he may not believe Elektra So unless Elektra and her ninjas were willing to break into prison, deal with the guards and inmates and convince a half crazed Matt of this information. I think it would be somewhat tricky for Elektra to tell Matt this information.


During the end of the 1st volume of DD, Elektra breaks into prison (she's a ninja for Christ's sake) to speak with an incarcerated Karen Page. Don't be an apologist. Getting into prison would be easy for her and her ninjas. As for the "half crazed" Matt (and you are assuming she knows he is "nuts") that's just grasping at straws. Heck, seems to me that Punisher (who got in prison the old fashion way) had no problem with Matt, in fact, Matt seemed rather sane (not wanting to "Kill") the whole time. Plain and simply, Bru could have easily had Elektra/the Hand tell Matt Foggy was alive. For heaven's sake, if Bru had written it differently, and HAD the ninja's secretly break into prison to tip off Matt, and someone complained that that would be impossible, I could actually hear you argue the other point Master Meg, "Hey, they're ninjas, they could easily get in undetected." What's happening here is that you are just trying to defend Brubaker. It's hilarious that when people love a writer (and, believe me, I really dig Brubaker) they CAN'T FIND ANY WRONG in them. This is exactly what happened with Bendis. People who loved him were sometimes apologists, even if his logic in storytelling was flawed sometimes. Hey, I can really love a writer, but that doesn't mean I can't scritinize his storytelling and give honest critizism. Anyway, whatever.

By the way, Master, who was involved with Foggy's kidnapping? Was it a government conspiracy? Didn't you say it would "never" be the FBI because that's so cliche? Ha. I can recall me hypothesizing (early in the arc) that it was the Feds and you went on about how it wasn't them (heck, you thought Foggy was dead anyway). Kind of like when I said Matt would fight the fake DD in the last issue because the cover indicated they might, and you went on about how covers are misleading in today's comics. Uh, yeah.

Heck, I've been so right (in guessing) about Bru's run that I'm beginning to fear that the master mind behind everything is, indeed, one George "Goober" Lindsay (aka. Alton Lennox). Shocked




rgj


Alright fine, maybe Brubaker just goofed, oh well.

I was wrong about Foggy being dead, but I was not wrong when I said that Foggy's "killer" wasn't connected with the government. I mean look at this issue, the feds didn't kidnap Foggy he went to them for protection after nearly being killed, why would the Feds try to have Foggy killed if they are now protecting him? Alton Lennox is clearly not connected with the government or he would have used professional spooks instead mob guys working for him.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you didn't think the Feds tried to kill him, you definitely thought that the Feds didn't have him. Which is what I had guessed at. And, I thought the issue said that the Feds went to him, not the other way around.

By the way, didn't Foggy say that the Feds were with him just prior to surgery. How did they get to him so fast?? How would they even know?? Interesting.

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
While you didn't think the Feds tried to kill him, you definitely thought that the Feds didn't have him. Which is what I had guessed at. And, I thought the issue said that the Feds went to him, not the other way around.

By the way, didn't Foggy say that the Feds were with him just prior to surgery. How did they get to him so fast?? How would they even know?? Interesting.

rgj


I have been wrong about Foggy not being in protective custody and about Foggy being dead.

But the thing your missing is motive, why would the FBI have Foggy killed and then put in protective custody? Also if the FBI is guilty, then did the Hand ninjas refer to Agent Pullman as a traitor, how could he be a traitor if he was working for the FBI in the first place, unless he was working for someone else and that someone is Alton Lennox, who has no connection to the FBI?
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rgj
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one said the FBI "had him killed."

My theory was always that "someone" tried to kill him, he survived, and the FBI stepped in. And, no one claimed Lennox had a connection with the Feds. At least, not me, brother. The only thing I thought that ended up being wrong was when I speculated "the government" (which includes polititians, law enfocement) may have been the ones to bring in the fake Daredevil, but this was more of a Civil War reasoning, not that the Feds would have Foggy killed. For heaven's sake, a prisoner was the one who stabbed him, how would anyone think it was "the Feds."

MM wrote:
But the thing your missing is motive, why would the FBI have Foggy killed and then put in protective custody


Strangly enough, the FBI agent protecting Foggy said something about different parts of the FBI not knowing what the other teams (the FBI director's "railroading of Matt") of the FBI are up to. Intersting. While Lennox isn't "connected" to the Feds (as an organization), is he connected to the director?

rgj


Last edited by rgj on Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
No one said the FBI "had him killed."

My theory was always that "someone" tried to kill him, he survived, and the FBI stepped in. And, no one claimed Lennox had a connection with the Feds. At least, not me, brother.

rgj


I assume you talking about that other thread where I and the poster "Solarstorm" were debating whether the governemnt was behind Foggy's murder or not, you were involved with that discussion as well:

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/messageboard/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1483&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mastermind&start=30
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rgj
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just proved my point, Master.

rgj wrote:
I don't see why you think the government being involved is anymore lamer than having a major lame character like Mr. Fear being involved. Look, whatever Brubaker is up to (government or super villain) I think he's going to pull it off. At least, these first fantastic issues has definitely given him credit in my bank.


This is what I said when when Solar specualated it was the govenrment and you said it should be someone like Mr. Fear. I never said that the Feds "killed" Foggy, I just said that you claiming a "govenrment" story was cliche is ridiculous, when how much more cliche (in this medium) can you get then some "super villain" being behind it (like Mr. Fear, as you'd like). Read it agian.

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
You just proved my point, Master.

rgj wrote:
I don't see why you think the government being involved is anymore lamer than having a major lame character like Mr. Fear being involved. Look, whatever Brubaker is up to (government or super villain) I think he's going to pull it off. At least, these first fantastic issues has definitely given him credit in my bank.


This is what I said when when Solar specualated it was the govenrment and you said it should be someone like Mr. Fear. I never said that the Feds "killed" Foggy, I just said that you claiming a "govenrment" story was cliche is ridiculous, when how much more cliche (in this medium) can you get then some "super villain" being behind it (like Mr. Fear, as you'd like). Read it agian.

rgj


Alright fine, i just said it would have would more sense for a super villain to have Foggy killed then the government and I stand by the statement.
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