Daredevil Message Board

[Gloria]

No, this is not about OMDs butterfly effect, nor about Skrulls.

I think it can be done in the proper way. No Deals with the Devil required.

Mainly because her death happenned within a story with a MASSIVE CONTINUITY LOOPHOLE.

Let's see: Glorianna is targeted by a murderer named Kruel, because, "years ago" she witnessed how he and the Kingpin fought in a public place.

"Years ago": that would imply that Glorianna had been in the USA a long time ago, but when she was introduced by Denny O'Neil in the post-Miller issues, she was pretty much a "country House", a girl who was visiting the States for the very first time. With Marvel's sliding sideline, Miss O'Breen could hardly have been in the USA for more than a few months.

... So... How on earth might she have witnessed a thug's fight "years ago"? Easy, she never was there... as a result, she never died. The story never happened...

Who remembers the "Allen Smithee" run of DD anyway? (Well, I do, but because it hurts so much )

Another point: As written shortly after Glorianna's death, Matt was a bit, hum... out of his mind in the last days of his green armoured uniform. I wonder if the story could be also retconned into having just been an hallucination.

Why I want her back? I liked her as a character, and her death was such a waste and so gratuitous....

And, Hey... I want the Fogster's chances of dating someone to increase... How long it's been since we last saw him enjoyong female company? 101 issues already!!

And where has she been all this time: Easy... in Europe! Probably running the local photo store at Innisfree.

To end with... since nowadays, whenever Dd is remembering the casulkaties of his love-life, only Elaktra and Karen are shown... Why not make to come back the girl whose death is so shamefully obliterated? If ye ain't mourning her, don't keep her dead
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

[Francesco]

As much as I liked Glorianna as character, and think that she has been the only true love interest for Franklin, I prefer dead characters to stay dead.
Same thing for Karen.

[jumonji]

Hmmm, you raise some interesting questions here. I actually voted to bring here back (if it could be done realistically), but I don't think that will ever happen. And I'm totally fine with that, and have a hard time seeing how it could be done well, so... Okay, can I change my vote?

You're right about there being some reasonable doubt regarding her death though. Did we ever actually see her die? Did we see a body? As far as I recall, we didn't. The only way we found out about her definite demise (though we see the scenes leading up to her death) was through Matt's interaction with that guy with the TV. The TV in question was permanently on mute, causing Matt (who was "Jack Batlin" at the time) to have to inquire about what was actually revealed in the news broadcast. To this the guy just gives the information that a woman photograper by the name of "Glori something..." had died. This leads Matt to conclude that Glorianna is dead. Matt consequently did not receive any of this information directly, but through someone else's interpretation of a muted news broadcast. That certainly leaves some doubt...

She was a great character whose death was unnecessary and gratuitous, and wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt (as far as I recall), but I think bringing her back would do little to advance the stories of today. So, I guess that means I'm going to have to change my vote. Let her rest in peace.
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The Other Murdock Papers

[The Overlord]

If you are going to bring her back, you need a good story to make it happen. You can't just pull a "Dallas" and say her death was a dream, not good story telling, especially since no has bothered to mention that during the 14 years snce her death (real time).

Seriously a Dallas style "it was all dream" is just weak story telling, if they are going to bring her back they would have to do a bit better. Okay, let's say she never died in the first place, if she died off panel, just say Kruel thought he killed her, but didn't succeed, surviving she got scared and secretly went back to Ireland. If she died on panel, it turns out her death was faked by MI6, who saved her at the last second. Either way she has joined MI6, who used her father's relationship with the IRA as a way to get her to infiltrate IRA splinter groups. It turns out she was really good at black-op missions and has been active spook ever since, going against all manner of terrorists in recet years, which explains where she has been.

Now she has to return to NYC, because of the return of an old foe, the Gael. Gael has become more dangerous and psychopathic in recent years, he has become an assassin who uses he wits rather than fighting skills, someone who can be a threat because of his use of prep time. Now he is going to assassinate someone important in NYC. The FBI asks MI6 for help and they send O'Breen, who DD bumps into while tracking the Gael himself.

Ther,e now she is back and there is a resaon for being in the DD title again. Sure its a bit cliche in terms of an explaination, but its better from a story telling stance than the "it was all a dream" explaination. If you are going to bring a character bck from the dead, there should be a good reason why they have returned.

[Dimetre]

I don't think it's necessary to bring Glorianna back from the dead. Bringing characters back from the dead is always messy, and I don't think she's she's vital enough as a character to necessitate that mess.

Liz Osborn is still alive though (I think. I don't read Spider-Man comics these days.) I know Foggy cheated on her, but I would like to see the two of them reconcile. I don't know if that's possible though. Even before One More Day, did Liz hook up with someone else?

[blacktyphoid]

[james castle]

Glorianna should just walk in the door and be like "hello!". Dead characters should stay dead. UNLESS they die for virtually no reason in a book that the writer has taken his name off. Glorianna was too good a character to die in such a ridiculous way. Let's all ignore her terrible death and just bring her back.

Ditto for Karen.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Pete]

[Gloria]

Hi there,

First of all, thanks a lot to everybody for the feedback. I am at two minds myself re Glorianna's death: I really miss her a lot but I understand that "dead stay dead" is not such a bad policy. So I wanted to drop the question and give some food for thought.

Should Dead stay dead?
Well, as I said, I think this is sensible policy... Otherwise death becomes a joke. Must I put it in two words? Jean Grey.

Yes, when she died the first time it was harrowing, traumatic I was one of those thinking "Why? Why? Damn tou Claremont, Byrne & Shooter!". Nowadays you don't care anymore because you just say to yourself "Oh, so... Jean is dead again?" and then forget about it without giving further thought to it (and anyway, Scott & Emma are much funnier: the George & Mildred Roper of the superhero community)

A seriously followed "Dead stays dead" policy would, I think, prevent most gratuitous, "just-for-the-shock" deaths among fictional characters (whether they are the leads or the supporting cast), and even cheaper comebacks.

Just think of two recurring characters: Natasha Romanoff and Debbie Harris (ex-Nelson). We are most likely to never see Debbie again in the series, yet it didn't hurt anybody that she went away just because she divorced, OK? If a writer wants to use her again, he/she can... If the writer doesn't have interest in the character, won't, but she's still there with her background and potential ready to be used. If she had been killed and used to make hamburgers you wouldn't have such chance, wouldn't you?

As for Natasha, Imagine that some writer decides that it would be cool to make a story where she is killed, so Matt can be more emotionally maimed and angsty... Imagine all the potential stories that would be wasted by killing Natasha. Well, that was what was wasted with Karen and Glorianna's death.

As the Overlord has pointed, even taking in account the customary "suspension of disbelief" one asumes when reading super-hero comics, if you want to bring someone back from teh dead, you must do it properly, i.e.: The Winter Soldier... Brubaker really took chances there, but the story was freakin' good and had a well-built rationale behind it (IMHO, anyway), so it worked. But a comeback can really suck if it's a bad story, so in this sense I'd rather keep a character dead than bringing her back because she was hiding inside a cocoon and some force of nature took her place.

And yet...

As James Castle has pointed, it was such a sucky story, not particularly remembered and with no author having the guts to claim its fatherhood/motherhood... Hey! even with OMD there are two "parents" discussing the ADN of the creature. Whoever wrote the story wasn't particularly proud of it, otherwise wouldn't have signed like "Allan Smithee".

Point two: I feel Glori wasn't properly mourned. I don't keep these issues anymore (I hope you'll understand), But as I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) I feel she wasn't properly mourned. She just died, and that was all. I have the DeMatteis issues where we see Matt a wee bit tormented by that, but I don't recall Foggy crying for her, which I think is sort of unforgivable of the author: if you kill a character, deal with the consequences, for God's sake!

Of course, Fogster-wise, as Dimetre has written, there's always the possibility of bringing Liz Allan (now a gay divorcée?) and have her dancing the Piccolino again with Nelson, but re Liz I always had the feeling (maybe because he dropped him so quickly) that she was a bit interested in her relationship... I mean, you get free lawyering services, and from a guy who is "Daredevil's pal" (now that's handy if your step-brother is an ex-con!). Glorianna, on the other hand, was someone who genuinely loved her guys... but didn't allow love to blind her had enough character to criticize them if she felt they were not doing right.

O, well, I suppose we'll never have her back in the series. But I just had to let it out, so bear with me.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

[blacktyphoid]

[Gloria]

[Stanley]

[Francesco]

You don't find more "great female characters" in the history of most of the other Marvel titles, though.

[Dimetre]

[Solid Snake PAC]

as possibly stated before, there's a level of disbelief that can attributed to such things. Human *non-super/magic/etc.* characters, like say ppl like Karen or Uncle Ben, should never be brought back because of the involvement of their deaths. Jean Grey was an X-Man, the X-Men go thru the whole Earth super community and others as well. Her coming back, you could believe a lot easier than say...Karen being back. Bucky as the Winter Solider was brought back in a form of belief, yeah you could believe all the stuff that happened. Van Helsing could be brought back, mind you, but I'm not sure what kind of death she was given or who she was...and the circles she could be involved in.