Daredevil Message Board

[Katerine]

Hi, I'm new. To the forums, that is - not the site (been reading the fanfic on here for ages). Will post in the "Introduce Yourself" thread maybe tomorrow, as well as post other stuff to this an other peoples' threads, but I thought I'd do the discussion thread first.

And I apologize if there are any similar threads - I looked back about 10 pages and didn't see any.

Question: How would you explain Matt Murdock as a person?

Actually, whenever I ask people that question, they never quite understand what I mean, so let's try this:

Let's say that all of us in this forum were actually in a room with some people from the Marvel Universe itself. By "some people," I mean reporters, doctors, FBI, police, regular people... anyone from the MU that you think doesn't understand him the way they should (I don't mean from a literary POV; I mean from the POV of treating Matt like a real person).

The people we're talking about/to can be specific people, or just "people" in general. Imagine that now is our chance to set them straight on a few things.

We can build on (or debate with) each other, or just give arguments of our own.

I'll give the floor to you guys, and, again, probably do all my own stuff tomorrow (unless I can't wait).

[jumonji]

May I first just say how great it is to see a fellow fangirl show up around these parts! I guess that makes four of us (Gloria, Darediva and myself are the only ones who currently post regularly). Welcome to the board!

I think this is a great thread, but let me just double-check that I understand you correctly before I dive in. Are you saying that we, as people who presumably "know" Matt, are given the task of describing him as a person (explaining what makes him tick, his strenghts and weaknesses etc) to someone who either doesn't know him at all or might have the wrong impression of him?

This could certainly be fun, and I think you may see a very wide range of answers. I'll definitely post later.
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The Other Murdock Papers

[Katerine]

[Blind Alley]

Matt is a mass of contradictions : lawyer/vigilante, catholic dressed as a devil, blind who "sees" things, fighter who promised his dad he wouldn't fight, seemingly successful with women but unlucky in love. He might not be easy to "explain".

What I like the most in the character is his "Never Give Up" attitude, so well written in Born Again (At Fogwell's gym : "Now every other part of me is dead. Only the fighter lives.")

Focusing on the "fighter" side, I'd like to talk about a potential "mischaracterization" of DD in the mini : "Daredevil : Ninja". Bendis, through Stick, said DD had to be a samurai, with a sense of honor, as opposed to ninjas who "would do whatever necessary to get the job done".
I don't think so. Considering his level of powers, DD sometimes has to play it nasty.

Another mischaracterization I remember is in "Wolverine : Enemy of the State" where Logan insinuates Matt is a player.

That were my two euro-cents.

And by the way, welcome to the board, Katerine !
Now you've registered, you can vote in Stand-alone issues showdowns and post your comments !
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Visit the Red Shaker

[Katerine]

[Note: Sorry if this post is convoluted or nonsensical or grumpy in any way. I woke up at 1:00 this morning and spent 5 hours trying to get back to sleep. There's a kind of fog in my head.]

[Another note: Because of money, I'm limited to reading TPB's that I can get from my public library. I can't buy comics, because I literally need the money for food. Therefore, I'm a bit behind the times - I've only read to the end of "The Devil: Inside and Out (Part 2)." When he was still recovering from his latest breakdown, and my comments are based on what I've read so far.]

[VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: In this thread, I am literally taking the POV that, when I read the comics, I am not reading the work of an author/artist, but am instead looking into a window into the mind of Matt Murdock, a real person who really exists in the MU, which is a real alternate universe. And that I am speaking to people who exist in that universe (people like the FBI, J Jonah Jameson, etc.) And they can hear me.

Basically, I am roleplaying. Except that the person that I'm playing is... myself.

I said this was an important note, not because it's imperetive that everybody do the same (it's not), but so this post will make any kind of sense. In particular, I need everybody to understand that when I say, "you," I'm actually talking to the people within the MU - not to people
in this forum. This is especially true when I say things like, "you should all get off your high horses."

It's also an important note because I'd like to use it to forestall any objections of "but... if that happened, then the comic would be completely ruined!" Well, yes, the comic probably would be ruined if the people actually did what I'm about to suggest in this thread, but it would make things a lot better for them (not to mention, for Matt) ]


[Replying to Blind Alley (thanks for the welcome, btw ) first, then moving on to my own comments later...]

[Blind Alley]

About "nasty" :
- in Devil in Cell-Block D, Matt strikes nerves termination of Hammerhead causing him tremendous pain. This and the way he handled the Owl make me think that torture is no more a major "no-no" for Matt (and the current arc could back it up but as Katerine hasn't read it I won't spoil her)

About the "player" thing :
- in the story, it was meant in the "romantic sense".

About the death of Karen, the way it was handled sucks :
- Bullseye killed Karen then left... just like that !
- Matt doesn't go after Bullseye (oh wait, maybe he did but it lead him to the editorial limbo of "Target") but first considers suicide...
Guardian Devil deserves "The Pain" (for Dave's Long Box blog-readers).
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[Katerine]

[Gloria]

Katerine, this is interesting... But I'm afraid that I won't be able to participate.

Matt, and other characters in Daredevil, are for me as family, so to say, but ,admittedly, as real as good writers can made them, there's that unbreachable fourth wall divide that I can't seem to be able to cross.

Hey! if I could cross it, the first thing I'd do is to get a NYC phone directory and search "Franklin Nelson" in order to do a call! (of course, I would hide my real intentions behind some "need of counseling" excuse Wha-Haw-Haw )

Anyway, welcome to the forum, and good luck with this thread.
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Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás

"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"

[Francesco]

[jumonji]

["OOC" comment to Katerine: I've really enjoyed reading this thread, but I'd just like to mention that the role-playing aspect might lead to something of a culture shock here since it hasn't been done on this board before. It might be a good idea to open the thread to other formats as well, to get feedback from those who might not be completely open to the role-playing angle. But, that's just a suggestion. Having said that, I have no problem thinking of Matt as if he were a real person. While firmly entrenched in my own reality, I can easily imagine all of these characters having "lives" between panels and issues, and trying to "channel" these characters is a big part of writing fanfics, for instance, which is something I enjoy doing. So I can't promise I'll stick to any particular format with this, but I will try to describe him as I see him, and as if he were in fact a real person.]

Matt Murdock might seem as an enigma to most people - and even to himself sometimes - but from his perspective most of the things he does make some kind of internal sense. While working on both sides of the law, he's really only working towards one goal: Trying to make sure that as many people as possible are free to live their lives in a world free from violence and opression. He knows that this goal is ultimately unattainable, but chooses to do what he can to make it a reality for as many as possible.

He also knows that taking on the role of guardian of a whole neighborhood might seem a bit arrogant, and thoughts like "who do you think you are?" probably come to mind quite frequently for him. Taking on the weight of the world is both a very selfless act and one that might give you the impression that he sees himself as particularly important.

Matt enjoys many aspects of his superheroics. While he doesn't actually enjoy beating people up for the sake of beating them up he enjoys the freedom to move around and use his body. He's like an athlete on game night who enjoys the thrill of it and takes pride in being able to push himself beyond his, admittedly rather large, comfort zone. He also finds some degree of relief in his civilian life as well. Though it may seem restricted, it's also his chance to rest and get himself pumped up for the next time he goes out. He feels comfortable in both his guises and they become different kinds of outlets. One being "release" and the other being "relief."

While Matt likes pushing his body to the max, he likes using his mind as well. He's well-educated, follows the news and I imagine that he would have CNN on in the background in the mornings while getting ready for work. On the other hand, he's probably not a fan of Fox News.

Matt has very good social skills. He's not a wise-cracking, talkative extrovert, by any means, but he knows how people work and how to talk to them. This is an essential skill to have as a lawyer, but it's a necessity for many other situations he might find himself in. His knows that he might scare people in his devil costume (that's half the point really), but he has to be able to relate to the people he is trying to help and put them at ease. As Matt Murdock, he has to do the same. While certainly a different kind of "scary," it's an undeniable fact that many, if not most, feel a little uncomfortable around the "differently abled" (a nonsense PC term that actually seems suitable in his situation). With his heightened senses, he would be better able than most to pick up on this kind of thing, and he has to be able to make people get past it for any meaningful relationship (personal or professional) to develop.

Matt has a great sense of humor, but very little desire to be funny for the sake of being funny. He's an optimist at the core because he wouldn't be able to go on if here weren't. As bad as his life has been at times, he's rarely been apathetic. The fighter in him comes from this sense of optimism. It is what prevents him from ever giving up.

Unlike many heroes, he can relate to the people he's helping. He's not some mighty and powerful god who brings himself to help the less fortunate. While never seeing himself as a victim, he is (technically) a victim of a long line of traumatizing events, from the bullying he suffered as a child, the accident that blinded him, the death of his father to violence, and the loss of many of his loved one's to having his own life destroyed from top to bottom. He can relate to the pain of the little guy being stepped on because in many ways he was, and still is, the little guy. He's not a god. He's a human being with psychological, emotional and physical flaws that compliment his gifts and extreme skills.

Matt is not a loner. And to the extent that he is, it is not by choice. He values personal relationships and is intensely loyal to those he cares about. He doesn't want to go through life alone. He seeks the same happiness for himself that he hopes to secure for everyone else.

Well, that's how I see him.
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The Other Murdock Papers

[Blind Alley]

I'm not so warm about the "roleplaying thing".
We know Matt through the comics so we have access to his thoughts, his "inner-self".
As a reader, pretending to be the average Joe of the Marvel Universe is... I don't know, I don't see the point.

And though I love this comic-book, I only see Matt and others as characters, not persons.
As a character, Matt Murdock can, unfortunately, be written in different ways. You can like some of his characterizations and dislike others but trying to "explain" them as a coherent whole... I don't think it's possible.

So, I'm sorry but I won't go into the roleplaying thing. Anyway, I'll post my thoughts on Matt's characterization, feel free to respond my points or not. Deal ?
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[Katerine]

Wow! Lots of great responses to go through!

I'm really sorry about scaring people away, with the whole "roleplaying" thing. Especially since it isn't really roleplaying - that's just the closest word that I could think of to describe it.


All it is, is it's the only way that I could think of to steer people away from thinking in terms of "how the writers handle things" within this thread, and steer everybody towards thinking in terms of "how Matt and the other characters handle things." There's a huge difference - lots of huge differences, in fact. Plus I'm trying to encourage emotional attachment to the characters, because I believe this really helps our insight (not to mention enjoyment of the books) - we don't understand people that we don't truly care for, nearly as well as we understand people that we do care for. And if any of that comes naturally to you, then you really don't need to do the exercise if you don't want to.

(It shouldn't really be a problem anyway - as any good author can tell you, it's really the characters who write the stories. Often by wringing the author's neck. ).

The problem is that suspension of disbelief comes very naturally to me - so much so, that it is a vital part of enjoying the comic (I honestly don't understand how it's possible to enjoy any fictional work without getting really emotionally involved with the characters - the whole point of fiction is to make you feel)
So when a discussion of the characters turns into a discussion of the writing/editing/etc., this makes it much more difficult for me to get emotionally involved with the characters, and then I don't enjoy the comics as much as I used to.
And, again, I really believe that thinking in terms of "the writing" detracts from our appreciation of the characters' nuances.

Anyway, my point is that I'm sorry for scaring people away (come back, Gloria and Blind Alley!) It was just the only way I could think of to describe what kind of discussion I'm hoping for, but it's certainly not imperative!

[Katerine]

Finally - I have a little time. Just a little, though... Instead of going through posts, I'm going to try to go through related points, since that seems to make the most sense

And again, I apologize if anything that I've said in my previous posts has put people off... hopefully, that last post is the last of my meta-discussion posts.

[Francesco]

[Katerine]