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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Spidey's BND is not consistent with OMD? |
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Every day in every way I feel BND is lesser and lesser.
When I went this morning to pick up my issue of Daredevil, I saw that the new Spidey story was being drawn by John Romita jr.
I don't subscribe to the BND reboot, but I like JR jr's art, so I peered through the last Spidey issues at the store.
And then...
Before I go on, I understood that the events so far were the following:
1 - Quesada doesn't like Spidey being married.
2 - Quesada ghost-writes a saga credited to Joe Strazsinsky (to put it shorthly in a mildly sarcastic way), in which Mephisto magically solves all of Spidey's troubles, and erases his marriage to MJ. in the event, he also erases the "Peter Parker is Spiderman" notion from the brains of everybody, be it Peter's dear and closest ones, his good pals, or his foiercest enemies. Also, in the process, Peter forgets about his marriage, his "outing", etc, etc... and of course the fact that it was all attained thanks to Mephisto.
Well, in Amazing Spider-man #569 we have the following scene: Norman Osborn and the Thunderbolts break into peter's appartment.
Osborn: "...where can I find Spider-Man?"
Peter: "Wha...?"
So far this could be OK but then we have this inner dialogue by Peter: "Ah, right, he doesn't remember anymore.e has no idea I'm Spidey. Nobody does. Everything we did is still up and running. I'm safe"
Well, this sounds pretty weird to me. the OMD/BND premise seemed preposterous to me (Francesco knows I'd rather use a STRONGER term), but with this inner dialogue the premise seems inconsistent with itself!
Of course, this may be my first contact with post-OMD Spidey, so maybe I've missed something which has happened in previous issues?.... Maybe Pete will say to himself in future issues "It's good to see that Harry doesn't remember he's dead, but I should recommend him some darn good deodorant to fight this terrible corpse odour" or "It's good that MJ doesn't remember we're married... FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM! "[/i] _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
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Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Worse than that, Peter looked oddly relaxed as soon as he realized Norman didn't know his secret, even though he was still face to face with the original Green Goblin (the one who killed his girlfriend, if it's not clear).
I understand he has to keep his identity a secret, but even by his thoughs, in the caption boxes, it seemed like he couldn't care less. |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm no fan of OMD/BND but where is the inconsistency there?
On the other hand, how does Spidey get his hands on DD's suit? He asks Matt? Peter still knows Matt is DD but Matt apparently doesn't know Peter is Spidey so isn't that a problem? Does Matt know now? _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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james castle wrote: | I'm no fan of OMD/BND but where is the inconsistency there? |
I understood -if I understood well- that after the Mephisto deal, Peter (nor anyone in the MU, save Mephisto) doesn't remember, that he unmasked in front of TV cameras to teh whole world, That he was married, that aunt may was about to die, that harry osborn was dead, etc, etc...
The way the inner dialogue is, it seems thet Peter is the only one to remember the pre-OMD events... Otherwise, how come he is aware -and relieved- that Osborn doesn't remember he is Spiderman (and no, I'm not taking, "this must be one of Osborn's writer-induced periods of amnesia".
If Peter REMEMBERS, well, does he know what happened before but he's darm fine as he is? That makes him accomplice of Mephisto...
Oh... Darn! I forgot! IT'S ALL MAGIC! So it doesn't have to make sense or be consistent with anything!!
james castle wrote: | On the other hand, how does Spidey get his hands on DD's suit? He asks Matt? Peter still knows Matt is DD but Matt apparently doesn't know Peter is Spidey so isn't that a problem? Does Matt know now? |
Matt was outed by the Press, by the FBI, by the Kingpin... Even with the Vanessa Trump played by Brubaker (That is, Murdock being "officially" cleared from the charge of being Daredevil), anyone who follows the news in the Marvel Universe, will know about the "Murdock is DD" rumor, whether they believe it or not.
Besides, is the "Spidey on a DD suit" story consistent with the events of Daredevil? _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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jumonji Guardian Devil

Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Gloria wrote: | james castle wrote: | I'm no fan of OMD/BND but where is the inconsistency there? |
I understood -if I understood well- that after the Mephisto deal, Peter (nor anyone in the MU, save Mephisto) doesn't remember, that he unmasked in front of TV cameras to teh whole world, That he was married, that aunt may was about to die, that harry osborn was dead, etc, etc... |
Unfortunately, I don't think there is an inconsistency (which makes the whole thing even more bizarre). The story is that the unmasking still happened, and that people remember it happening. All they forgot was who was behind the mask. If this interpretation is correct - I thought this was how the story went anyway - Peter should still remember his own unmasking. The other things that were altered with OMD went a little deeper, so Peter not remembering that Harry used to be dead is because he never died. The big question is why Peter isn't completely weirded out by the odd fact that he unmasked on TV and no one remembers. He should find that extremely odd. _________________ The Other Murdock Papers |
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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: |
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jumonji wrote: | He should find that extremely odd. |
I sympathise... I find the whole thing extremely odd myself  _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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james castle Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 1999 Location: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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jumonji wrote: | Gloria wrote: | james castle wrote: | I'm no fan of OMD/BND but where is the inconsistency there? |
I understood -if I understood well- that after the Mephisto deal, Peter (nor anyone in the MU, save Mephisto) doesn't remember, that he unmasked in front of TV cameras to teh whole world, That he was married, that aunt may was about to die, that harry osborn was dead, etc, etc... |
Unfortunately, I don't think there is an inconsistency (which makes the whole thing even more bizarre). The story is that the unmasking still happened, and that people remember it happening. All they forgot was who was behind the mask. If this interpretation is correct - I thought this was how the story went anyway - Peter should still remember his own unmasking. The other things that were altered with OMD went a little deeper, so Peter not remembering that Harry used to be dead is because he never died. The big question is why Peter isn't completely weirded out by the odd fact that he unmasked on TV and no one remembers. He should find that extremely odd. |
I think you're right. But then what does "Everything we did is still up and running" mean? The whole thing is such a mess. _________________ JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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james castle wrote: | But then what does "Everything we did is still up and running" mean? The whole thing is such a mess. |
I must say that I don't know what the meaning of it might be: an obscure reference to the Osborn twins? _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Man, the whole thing could've been paradoxically a little more consistent if they omitted the idiotic particular that "Even though Peter unmasked during civil war, no one quite remembers who was behind the mask".
No one? Not even those who told him to do it? Not even those interested in Spider-man (his enemies)? Not even Osborn, who is supposed to hunt down Spider-man for the government? |
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jumonji Guardian Devil

Joined: 23 Sep 2007 Posts: 636 Location: Too close to the Arctic circle
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Francesco wrote: | Man, the whole thing could've been paradoxically a little more consistent if they omitted the idiotic particular that "Even though Peter unmasked during civil war, no one quite remembers who was behind the mask". |
What would have made it even more consistent - sort of - would have been to do a complete reboot of the series. Just end it and start over with BND and make it clean. A reboot is what it is anyway, it's just unnecessarily messy. OMD was obviously meant to let Marvel have their continuity cake and eat it too, make it seem as if there actually is consistency between the old and the new without having to pretend that any of that old stuff even exists.
I'm looking forward to when the events of OMD will finally be explained and Mephisto's machinations will see the light of day. They've said it's going to happen, but how they are going to make everything match up, I have no idea. _________________ The Other Murdock Papers |
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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Incidentally, there's a scene between Norman and Harry which makes me wonder if they have brought Harry from the land of the dead just to stablish an Smallville papa Luthor/Lex type of antagonism (even if Smallville's Luthor family dinamics were written long after Marvel depicted the troubled relationship between Norman and Harry) _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo"
Last edited by Gloria on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, yeah. That was disgustingly cliché. |
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Gloria Redemption

Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 711 Location: Suburbia around Barcelona
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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jumonji wrote: | What would have made it even more consistent - sort of - would have been to do a complete reboot of the series. Just end it and start over with BND and make it clean. A reboot is what it is anyway, it's just unnecessarily messy. OMD was obviously meant to let Marvel have their continuity cake and eat it too, make it seem as if there actually is consistency between the old and the new without having to pretend that any of that old stuff even exists. |
If they wanted a full reboot, as many people has pointed, that's what Bendis has already done with Ultimate Spiderman.
The strange thing is the random selection of items of "old continuity" which are preserved: it would be good if the rebooted continuity was a bit more consistent.
I'm awaiting eagerly at some Osborn explanations: including the BND re-shaping of Liz Allen's relationships as a widow (if only for the fun implied)
jumonji wrote: | I'm looking forward to when the events of OMD will finally be explained and Mephisto's machinations will see the light of day. They've said it's going to happen, but how they are going to make everything match up, I have no idea. |
Oh, I have: It's all magic! _________________ Gloria
Devuélveme el rosario de mi madre y quédate con todo lo demás
"Para la cuesta arriba quiero mi burro, que la cuesta abajo yo me la subo" |
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Francesco Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | "Even though Peter unmasked during civil war, no one quite remembers who was behind the mask"
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Yet, Peter has absolutely no problem with that because, for some strange reason, he is aware of this fact that no one remembers.
Basically, he unmasked in front of millions of viewers and after that out of the blue, certain that no one remembered it, decided that he could do as if is his identity was secret again. |
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