|
Daredevil Message Board
The Board Without Fear!
|
The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Supreme Convoy
Flying Blind
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 13
|
 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:32 pm Post subject: Guardian Devil 10th Anniversary hardcover |
 |
|
Just curious, did anyone pick up the Guardian Devil 10th Anniversary hardcover? Are there any new extras?
I have plenty of copies of this story (single issues, paperback, Graphitti Design hardcover) but just wonder what kinda new content they added if any.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hope they added a plot that makes sense.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| One of the extra contents is probably an article/interview where the three authors talk about how great an experience it was for them to write this storyarc, which in-jokes and references they put in etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hear there are also two essays. The first is "Daredevil Was Going to Be Cancelled. No Really." by Joey Q and the second is "I Didn't Want to Do it Because I didn't Want to Step on Frank Miller's Toes" by Smith.
I defy anyone to point to any evidence that DD was going to be cancelled prior to Marvel Knights. This is a "fact" that has gotten louder and louder the further we get away from the time period.
Ditto for Smith and his "didn't want to step on Miller's toes". Every recent interview on the subject has Miller and Smith trotting out this story. Weird that it's never been mentioned by anyone before. Also weird since Smith basically took a dump on Miller's toes (by undoing Matt's forgiveness, "settling" the Maggie question and making Kingpin an idiot).
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim B.
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Woodstock Ontario
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: |
Also weird since Smith basically took a dump on Miller's toes (by undoing Matt's forgiveness, "settling" the Maggie question and making Kingpin an idiot). |
Don't forget the fact that Kingpin suddenly knew in this story about Matt being blinded as a boy and getting the radar sense and super senses from it when he never had knowledge of it before or even showed any kind of interest or suspicion of knowing it ever. If you look at Born Again and the comic afterwards Kingpin assumes Matt is just pretending to be blind to hide his secret as Daredevil and that's all. There is never any mention afterwards that he suspects him of having supersenses, and why would he? It doesn't seem to be any kind of a concern to him. I've never heard anyone on here give a good reason on how he might have suddenly learned all of that "off panel"
As for the fact that before DD became "Marvel Knighted" he was going to be canceled I sometimes wonder if that was true or not. I know Marvel was in rough shape in the late 90's but I can't see them giving a character with so much history as Daredevil the axe.
_________________
"This isn't hell, but you can see it from here." -The Crow |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: | I hear there are also two essays. The first is "Daredevil Was Going to Be Cancelled. No Really." by Joey Q and the second is "I Didn't Want to Do it Because I didn't Want to Step on Frank Miller's Toes" by Smith.
I defy anyone to point to any evidence that DD was going to be cancelled prior to Marvel Knights. This is a "fact" that has gotten louder and louder the further we get away from the time period.
|
It isn't hard evidence, but Daredevil #377 sold 25459 copies. Maverick #11 (also from July '0 sold 22799 and was cancelled the following month. So DD wasn't far off from Marvel's then-cancellation point.
Bear in mind that this was during Marvel's wholesale slaughter of titles, when they chopped about 2/3 of their output in a year or so. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The other titles that month selling less than 30K was Ka-Zar, Heroes for Hire and Silver Surfeer, and none of them survived the year.
Edit: This from Tom Brevoort's blog.
http://www.marvel.com/blogs//entry/1220 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rgj
Hardcore
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1580
Location: The Rio Grande Valley of Texas
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jc wrote: | | Also weird since Smith basically took a dump on Miller's toes (by undoing Matt's forgiveness, "settling" the Maggie question and making Kingpin an idiot). |
Touché
_________________
rgj |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Francesco
Underboss
Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 1307
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jim B. wrote: |
Don't forget the fact that Kingpin suddenly knew in this story about Matt being blinded as a boy and getting the radar sense and super senses from it when he never had knowledge of it before or even showed any kind of interest or suspicion of knowing it ever. If you look at Born Again and the comic afterwards Kingpin assumes Matt is just pretending to be blind to hide his secret as Daredevil and that's all. There is never any mention afterwards that he suspects him of having supersenses, and why would he? It doesn't seem to be any kind of a concern to him. I've never heard anyone on here give a good reason on how he might have suddenly learned all of that "off panel"
|
Hmm, not that I'm defending Smith's Guardian Devil, god forbid it, but don't forget that Kingpin saw Matt fighting illegal boxing matches _blindfolded_ during Chichester's run, and deduced it was certainly him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
While I appreciate the numbers, I don't think it's fair to compare DD to Heroes for Hire, Maverick, etc.. The other titles you listed were short run titles that failed to gain steam (who on earth thought a monthly Maverick title would work?). The only comparible character is Silver Surfer who has never been able to sustain a monthly (perhaps because he's a better special effect than character).
Obviously Daredevil is different. Either comicbookresources or newsarama ran an article a couple weeks back about comics that could possibly hit #500. Daredevil, were it not for the renumbering, was one of the very few Marvel comics that could. Although he's been B-listy for periods of time, Daredevil has always been a pretty consistant book for Marvel.
Therefore, what do you think Marvel would do when the DD numbers slip? Cancel? Errrrr. Probably not. In fact, what they usually do is slap a quality creative team on the book and watch it bounce back. Which, lo and behold, is what they did.
Well, maybe "quality" is the wrong word since Smith is a hack (a popular hack but a hack).
I've mentioned it before but the one thing that sticks out like a "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" sore thumb in Guardian Devil for me is the scene where Kingpin is reading about Karen's death and says something like "Brillant move!" or something. The thing is that the villain Fisk is calling brilliant had nothing to do with Karen's death. Karen just happened by and Bullseye killed her because he's like that. At no point did anyone make a "move" or order Bullseye to kill Karen.
So what's the point of that panel? Smith wanted to show us Kingpin wrongly assuming that Mysterio had ordered Karen's death? That's absurd.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: | | While I appreciate the numbers, I don't think it's fair to compare DD to Heroes for Hire, Maverick, etc.. The other titles you listed were short run titles that failed to gain steam (who on earth thought a monthly Maverick title would work?). The only comparible character is Silver Surfer who has never been able to sustain a monthly (perhaps because he's a better special effect than character). |
Yes, but people who were there say "DD was close to be cancelled" and the numbers show that it sold for ****. If that evidence is invalid in your opinion it's of course impossible to find real evidence.
| james castle wrote: | Obviously Daredevil is different. Either comicbookresources or newsarama ran an article a couple weeks back about comics that could possibly hit #500. Daredevil, were it not for the renumbering, was one of the very few Marvel comics that could. Although he's been B-listy for periods of time, Daredevil has always been a pretty consistant book for Marvel.
Therefore, what do you think Marvel would do when the DD numbers slip? Cancel? Errrrr. Probably not. In fact, what they usually do is slap a quality creative team on the book and watch it bounce back. Which, lo and behold, is what they did. |
Marvel was in absolutely no position to gamble at the time. They had zero leeway monetarily. Which is why they took the extreme measure to license the comic out, to save it. Which is why it's quite correct of Quesada to say that MK saved Daredevil. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| entzauberung wrote: | | james castle wrote: | | While I appreciate the numbers, I don't think it's fair to compare DD to Heroes for Hire, Maverick, etc.. The other titles you listed were short run titles that failed to gain steam (who on earth thought a monthly Maverick title would work?). The only comparible character is Silver Surfer who has never been able to sustain a monthly (perhaps because he's a better special effect than character). |
Yes, but people who were there say "DD was close to be cancelled" and the numbers show that it sold for ****. If that evidence is invalid in your opinion it's of course impossible to find real evidence. |
No, it's not impossible to find real evidence. The internet existed back then and, as I understand it, there were magazines and everything. Also the whole industry existed back then and there were people (like, say, me) who were interested in comics at the time and especially interested in Daredevil. Even a hint that DD was going to be cancelled would have had me running to the hills. I don't recall any such hints.
When Daredevil became successful again no one was like "wow, and it was almost cancelled". This "it was almost cancelled" business has only cropped up recently and repeatedly in Joey Q interviews regarding the 10th Anniversary of Guardian Devil. It reeks of history being rewritten by those who are in charge now.
| Quote: |
| james castle wrote: | Obviously Daredevil is different. Either comicbookresources or newsarama ran an article a couple weeks back about comics that could possibly hit #500. Daredevil, were it not for the renumbering, was one of the very few Marvel comics that could. Although he's been B-listy for periods of time, Daredevil has always been a pretty consistant book for Marvel.
Therefore, what do you think Marvel would do when the DD numbers slip? Cancel? Errrrr. Probably not. In fact, what they usually do is slap a quality creative team on the book and watch it bounce back. Which, lo and behold, is what they did. |
Marvel was in absolutely no position to gamble at the time. They had zero leeway monetarily. Which is why they took the extreme measure to license the comic out, to save it. Which is why it's quite correct of Quesada to say that MK saved Daredevil. |
They were in "no position to gamble" so they took an "extreme measure". Hahahahaha. They couldn't afford to take risks so they had to take a risk? Oh dear.
They licensed out a number of comics. The imprint was Daredevil, Punisher, Black Panther and The Inhumans. Obviously at least part of the plan was to have an imprint anchored by two proven characters (DD and Punisher) that included a few long shots. Surprise, surpise the proven comics kept going while the long shots died. Weird. Why didn't Marvel Knights save the unproven characters as well? Could it be that DD and Punisher were strong characters that would have survived anyway? I wonder.
The real question is "would have DD survived without Marvel Knights?". No one can ever know but chances are that yes, yes it would have.
But hey, if you want to keep drinking Joey Q's Kool Aid I won't stop you.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: | | No, it's not impossible to find real evidence. The internet existed back then and, as I understand it, there were magazines and everything. Also the whole industry existed back then and there were people (like, say, me) who were interested in comics at the time and especially interested in Daredevil. Even a hint that DD was going to be cancelled would have had me running to the hills. I don't recall any such hints. |
This is just you assuming that because the public sometimes gets hints about a title's upcoming cancellation, they always do. Mostly this is just conjecture from sales - which in DD's case was under the general axe limit.
| Quote: |
[quote="james castle"]Obviously Daredevil is different. Either comicbookresources or newsarama ran an article a couple weeks back about comics that could possibly hit #500. Daredevil, were it not for the renumbering, was one of the very few Marvel comics that could. Although he's been B-listy for periods of time, Daredevil has always been a pretty consistant book for Marvel.
Therefore, what do you think Marvel would do when the DD numbers slip? Cancel? Errrrr. Probably not. In fact, what they usually do is slap a quality creative team on the book and watch it bounce back. Which, lo and behold, is what they did. |
Two things:
1.Thor had a monthly for about 40 years until it was cancelled, so it can happen. It took some four years until they gave it a try again (and it's yet to be proven that it can be sustained indefinetly in today's climate).
2.As I was trying to say, this all happened during an era at Marvel when normal rules was out the window. The company was bankrupt and could not afford things that lost money, even in the short run. This is most certainly why they licensed out the book (and other books, like the Punisher which WAS cancelled at the time), a measure they would not have taken today and definitely not in the 80's or earlier.
Now if you want to say "they would have come up with some other unconventional thing which would have saved the book for sure", OK, but that's like saying "Frank Miller didn't save Daredevil, maybe Walt Simonson would have done the comic instead, you can't really know".
| james castle wrote: | | The real question is "would have DD survived without Marvel Knights?". No one can ever know but chances are that yes, yes it would have. |
As I said, see Thor. (Unless you interpret Quesada as "Daredevil would never have come back, forever and always"). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yum. Kool Aid.
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
entzauberung
Flying Blind
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Sztokholm
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| james castle wrote: | | Yum. Kool Aid. |
Classy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
