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McFly
Flying Blind
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 70
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| thomam wrote: | No by saying that is not racist. The definition of racism is to believe that your race is superior to another race. By saying that the character of kingpin, ben ulrich, nick fury etc is a white character as created and should stay that way is not implying that any race is superior or inferior. It's simply stating that people think characters should be as they are. The question is will they ever change the race of a black character? If people were to complain if they did would they also be called racist by people like you who don't know what the term means.
Ulrich is a supporting character and I think the particular actor playing him will do great but I and a lot of other people like the characters to stay true to the comics. |
you obviously dont get it. at all.
if you have to decide between being faithful to a +50 year old comic book OR gender and race equality, there should be no argument about it at all. its not about political correctness, its about fairness. most of those characters came from a time where such things didnt matter as much. since then we've grown as a society and realized that there are many different races and sexes who all deserve to be represented. dismissing this with "but its in that +50 year old comic book and therefor it should stay this way" is racist. you reduce everything about those characters down to their skin colour.
now your (pardon my french) stupid point with race-swapping black panther or luke cage is a whooole different thing. name me all black superheroes you know. count them. ok? now name me all white superheroes you know. you will soon realize what a difference in terms of equality it makes for white-washing those few characters there are. aren't black, hispanic or asian kids allowed to have a superhero to identify with, too? no?
plus the fact that some characters have to have a certain race. daredevil has to be white, because of his irish/catholic upbringing in new york. black panther has to be black because he is a king of an african nation. what are there to the characters of kingpin, johnny storm or ben urich that HAS to be white? Do you really want the fantastic four movie to be a completely white affair, JUST BECAUSE those characters were created 60 years ago in a time when people simply weren't that considerate? If so, then guess what? its racist.
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Nope I prefer Turk to be black. Not like in Guardian Devil. And I believe Vincent D'nofrio was a actor back when the Daredevil movie was made.
Sorry. It is still not racist. Does everything have to be changed for fairness?
So because there are more white superheroes we need to go back and start changing races to even it out a bit for fairness?
Sorry. As much as you want there to be racism in the world... its just not always racism like you believe.
Yes different races need to be represented but do races need to be changed of characters to do so? |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| thomam wrote: | No by saying that is not racist. The definition of racism is to believe that your race is superior to another race.
By saying that the character of kingpin, ben ulrich, nick fury etc is a white character as created and should stay that way is not implying that any race is superior or inferior. |
WRONG. Racism doesn't necessarily have to be about one race being superior. It's about attributing attributes to a person solely based on their race. Assuming a black person is a good dancer simply because they're black is racist. Assuming an Asian person is good at math simply because they are Asian is racist. It's not about what is better. It's about improperly prejudging someone based on their race.
| thomam wrote: | | It's simply stating that people think characters should be as they are. The question is will they ever change the race of a black character? If people were to complain if they did would they also be called racist by people like you who don't know what the term means. |
But why are you singling out race as the one thing that can't change? If you just want an actor that is "true to the comic" then why aren't you demanding that the actor in question be the same height as the Urich in the comic? You should also be demanding that he have the same hair colour, the same hair cut, and nose and ears and ear brows too. He must be the same age as the Urich in the comics.
Obviously, it would be impossible to find such an actor but you seem to be okay with all the changes except race. Why is that? Oh, and by race I guess we mean pretty broad black/white stuff because if we're going to stay true to the comic Urich better be German not Italian (i.e. not Joe Pantoliano).
The point is you seem to only car about race. And that's racist.
| thomam wrote: | | Ulrich is a supporting character and I think the particular actor playing him will do great but I and a lot of other people like the characters to stay true to the comics. |
As a final note I will point out that Vondie Curtis-Hall embodies the character of Ben Urich way, way, way more than Joe Pantoliano. If you can't see that it's because you're racist.
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JC
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:13 am Post subject: |
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You are talking about stereotypes.
Height? They hide height in movies all the time. Michael Keatons Batman.
Same haircut nose and ears? No not necessarily but I want someone as similar to the character in the book as possible. Hair color can be changed. Ben Affleck was white and I don't think he was a fit for Matt murdock. Simply insert any white actor here does not work. I'm not down with Scarlet Johansen as black widow either.
I think age is important. when casting a character however. Robert Redford would have been a great Matt Murdock 50 years ago 
And it doesn't have to be German/Italian all that trash you are talking. That is way specific. Charlie Cox is from the UK and has a distinct accent but he can act with an american one to pull off Daredevil/Matt Murdock.
I do agree though that Vondie Curtis Hall will be a way better Ulrich then Joe Pantoliano was. He does look more of the part despite the skin color. I'm ok with that though. Like was said before. Ulrich is a smaller character. Daredevil being black, asian, mexican. Would not cut it for me because Daredevil is not black, asian, mexican and he is a main character. Falcon being cast as white would not cut it for me either. I guess I'm racist against whites too then huh?
But who cares right? People made jesus white so whats it matter? Joking... I'm not religious. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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You're clearly pretty hung up on race. It's unreal to me how you keep trying to defend your racist comments with even more racist comments. You're a bit racist. That's fine. A lot of people are. You should try to stop though.
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JC
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Marcus Plato
Flying Blind
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: |
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When they cast X-Men, I wanted Wolverine to be 5'2". Instead we got HJ, who is 6'2". Does that make a difference? Not really, except no-one calls him "runt" in the movies.
When I heard about the Netflix series, I kept my fingers crossed that they would cast DD as he is described in the Marvel Universe encyclopedia; 6' and 200lbs... Well, that didn't happen, but frankly I don't mind because I think Charlie will bring something special to the role.
My point is this; some of us want the show to stay EXACTLY true to the comics, and that's cool. Some of us don't mind if there's some creative license, and that's cool. Some of us just don't care because MY GOD PEOPLE, DD IS FINALLY BEING GIVEN HIS CHANCE TO SHINE IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND THAT'S INCREDIBLY COOL!!!
Vondie is awesome, and I think he'll knock it out of the park. I've always imagined James Woods as Urich, but what the hey? My opinion's not set in stone.
In all honesty, the only casting I've ever REALLY had a problem with Marvel movies is Johnny Storm and Steve Rogers being played by the same actor. Then again, he was fantastic in both roles, so, like, whatever... Different studios etc.
We're all friends here, so let's keep it civil, and when the show comes out we can have a great discussion about the positives and negatives of the representation of the best Marvel character ever, and his supporting cast.
Roll on May 2015!!!
P.S.- I hope they release some sweet action figures to compliment the show. Geez, 42 years old and STILL collecting toys. What a nerd! (I can call myself that because I am one) |
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Marcus Plato wrote: |
My point is this; some of us want the show to stay EXACTLY true to the comics, and that's cool. Some of us don't mind if there's some creative license, and that's cool. |
Exactly. It does not make anyone a racist just because they want film adaptations to stay true to the comics.
Sorry Jamie Castle. I'm not racist. Hate to disappoint you. However, I don't like Canadians. They are dirty and dumb.
Joking |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| thomam wrote: |
Exactly. It does not make anyone a racist just because they want film adaptations to stay true to the comics. |
If "true to the comics" means "true to the comics with minor differences allowed as long as those differences are not the race of the character" then its racist.
Why is race more important than the shape of someone's nose? Answer me that and I'll stop thinking you're racist.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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Ash-n-Bone
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 223
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Woah, I did not want this thread to get out of hand.
Firstly, like I said in my opening post, Vondie Curtis Hall is an extremely gifted actor and it's awesome he's been cast as Urich.
Second, this race argument has popped up in countless other discussions countless times before, so let's just try and end it here.
The fact is (regardless of our views on race changes) we all seem to be happy about this casting.
Now how do you guys think they'll use the character? Will he be on the trail like in the movie? Or will he already know from the start, like Fox did in Nolan's Batman? |
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if it exactly is. Now if you are talking Adrien Brody with that big weird face or Vondie as Ben Ulrich then yeah.. give me Vondie. He looks more like the weathered reporter.
If you are talking Adrien Brody or Vondie as Matt Murdock, Then give me Adrien Brody.
And what about Bruce Wayne? Why don't they make him black someday on film? I mean does he have to be white? I mean someone said Daredevil needs to be white because he is irish Catholic. What makes Bruce Wayne white and what if his color changed? Would you be up for that?
But anyways I could care less if you think I'm racist or not. It does nothing to my life. I'm sure I live a life that is way more diverse then yours filled with people from all kinds of racial, religious, and other backgrounds. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| thomam wrote: | I don't know if it exactly is. Now if you are talking Adrien Brody with that big weird face or Vondie as Ben Ulrich then yeah.. give me Vondie. He looks more like the weathered reporter.
If you are talking Adrien Brody or Vondie as Matt Murdock, Then give me Adrien Brody.
And what about Bruce Wayne? Why don't they make him black someday on film? I mean does he have to be white? I mean someone said Daredevil needs to be white because he is irish Catholic. What makes Bruce Wayne white and what if his color changed? Would you be up for that?
But anyways I could care less if you think I'm racist or not. It does nothing to my life. I'm sure I live a life that is way more diverse then yours filled with people from all kinds of racial, religious, and other backgrounds. |
Some of your best friend, huh? I love it so very much.
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JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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HA!
No you won't get that line from me. My best friend is white. |
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Marcus Plato
Flying Blind
Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Like I said, let's keep it civil, huh? Let's keep this a fun forum to visit. |
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D
Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Marcus Plato wrote: | | Like I said, let's keep it civil, huh? Let's keep this a fun forum to visit. |
Well, racist comments aren't very civil. So let's make a deal. I'll "keep it civil" as long as everyone else "keeps it not racist".
_________________
JC
So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing? |
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thomam
Flying Blind
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Louisville, Ky
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Marcus,
I'm keeping it civil.
James,
I don't believe a single racist statement was made in this entire post by anyone.
Can't wait to see the Netflix series!! Never been so excited for spring to get here! |
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