Daredevil Message Board

[jmp85]

Im tring to research Daredevil's religion.
How much of an impact has Dardevil's religion had on his character throughout his history and how does that make him different from other comic book heroes/what is the significance of him being religious? Any other information on this topic would be much appreciated.. THanks

[jumonji]

Hmmm... I may be mistaken, but I don't think the religious theme was dealt with much at all before Frank Miller wrote Born Again. After that, it popped up every once in a while, but I don't even consider DD to be a particularly religious character. Or rather, I'd say that he's a somewhat spiritual character who leads a very secular lifestyle. The way he is portrayed, he just seems like what you would expect from someone who was raised Catholic and stuck to that belief system as an adult, but to my knowledge he's never been portrayed as a regular church-goer (except when Kevin Smith wrote him and then it just seemed a little strange to me, quite frankly). I'm sure there are other readers who have much more to say on the subject, and there may even be a research article or two about this on the web. Good luck!
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The Other Murdock Papers

[james castle]

Um...in what way is DD religious? Frank Miller sort of touches on it with Maggie but not really (how does his mom being a nun make him religious?). Smith touches on it in a ham fisted and basically stupid way. Other than that though, can anyone direct me to a scene in which Matt shows himself to be religious at all? I honestly don't recall him ever praying or going to church or referring to god in any sort of significant way.

On the flipside, Matt has always behaved in a very non-religious way. I don't put a great deal of stock in the ridiculous "Matt's a player!" nonsense that Smith and Joey Q can't stop barfing up but at the same time Matt sure shacks up a lot.
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JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[jumonji]

[rgj]

Bru did say Matt "prayed" in a recent issue, but as jumonji said he admitted to not having done so in a long time.

Wasn't Matt also married in a Catholic church? In order to complete that sacrament, you have to have completed the previous ones, which involve participating in Catholic teachings up until you are in high school. I, myself, made it only to First Communion and since I was never "Confirmed" (the sacrement when you are of high school age) the church made me go to night classes every Thursday (11 Thursdays!) before I got married (my wife wanted a Church wedding). God, that sucked.

I think Matt is a lapsed Catholic. I don't think that means he doesn't believe in God, or Jesus or whatever (to james castle's dismay). But, I don't think Matt goes to church regularly, or prays regularly. But, I do think the teachings of Christianity are in him somewhere (and maybe even Eastern Philosphies). I think all these things, along with the study of Law and his life with his father made him who he is today. All these things gave him his own moral compass.

So, while Matt may not be a practicing Catholic, I still think he's far from being Atheist.

Ann Nocienti also wrote that Matt was raised a Catholic. And, during Matt's battle with Mephisto (or actually, the Silver Surfer's battle with Mephisto) Matt told Mephisto that he forgave him. And, that SOMEONE else forgave Mephisto, "for all time." Ann made it pretty clear that Matt was referring to "God."

I agree with jumonji. Matt would NEVER say that Karen was going to "Hell" because she didn't go to church. That is absurd and not in Matt's character. I also think that Matt isn't the kind of guy to go to confession. I was born and raised a Catholic (till I stopped going) and I've always thought confession kind of silly. Jesus, I remember having to go to confession when I was in grade school. Forcing a little kid to "confess" his "sins" to a priest, I don't know, it's like child abuse if you ask me.


rgj

[james castle]

Okay, so Matt believes in god but ignores him and doesn't care about any of his silly little rules. That's pretty lapsed.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[Francesco]

Yeah, also, I wonder what kind of sins is a boy supposed to confess.

About the marriage, I recall it was celebrated in secret, in his office. The art clearly showed that the celebrant was a catholic priest, though. If I recall correctly it was "Decalogue, part 4".

Before that, in "The King of Hell's kitchen, part 3" Milla refers to him as "good catholic boy", when Urich expressed incredulity on the fact that Matt was the "marriage" type. But more than anything else that statement reflects Milla's opinion of him.
In the last issue of Decalogue, in fact, Matt admonishes a priest, telling him:

"You believe in god and angels, father? Well, sorry. You don't get to pick and choose".

And that's not exactly how an ordinary observant catholic would address a priest on matters of supernatural.

[jumonji]

[rgj]

[Francesco]

He totally makes sense, in fact.
However, priests usually refuse any non canonical supernatural entity, especially when they are speaking of their beliefs. People were speaking of this deformous demon who smelled like eggs and charcoal who entered inside people's mouths and made them superstrong, maniacally homicidal and capable of spitting fire. And then Matt had explained the facts as product of Mikkyo, mystical ninja arts etc. That was completely new and unusual to that priest. Catholic hierarchies detest "new and unusual" interpretations of supernatural.

But most of all, a true catholic believer would never, ever put in doubt what a catholic priest says about supernatural stuff.

[Stanley]

This thread has reignited my confidence in the board.

jmp85, if this ends up in a school paper, I want money.

For the most part, comic book heroes are not religious. One could say that they each see enough horror that it makes it difficult to believe in a higher power (the classic cop line), but it's more likely that none of the publishers want to potentially divide the fan base and cost the house money.

I'm no expert, but I would guess that with the Hulk's fairly tormented life and Iron Man's alcoholism, you would think that they'd turn to religion. I haven't read much of either of those two characters, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. Neither pick a 'team' (Catholicism, Buddhism, etc.). I know Batman doesn't really get all religious either.

I think that heroes generally work under the attitude that religion exists, but they don't have time for it. Matt doesn't either.

However, during Born Again, Maggie prays for his life (since no earthly force can stop his fever), and Matt gets better. I think, should you be looking for something to sink your teeth into regarding religion in Matt's life, this is the only page you need. This is a fairly strong endorsement by God (at least the way Maggie's prayer is written) of Matt--this makes him different than other heroes. Yet, Matt didn't ask for any of this.

Overt religious practices have very little to do with his actions. If anything, he practices a bastardized sort of Buddhism and struggles to line his own moral code up with that of others (he's got his own Noble Eight-fold Path). Other heroes do too, but his moral code can infuriate others at times.



(...Let this serve as a gentle reminder that Stanley still produces the highest quality of content. I may be an asshole, but I'm also right.

*That's* gotta piss off the drooling, slack-jawed, pacifier-chomping smiley patrol...)

[james castle]

[rgj]

[Stanley]

[rgj]

I agree with Stanley, in so far that God's itervention could be a possibility, or that one could conclude that.

If someone wants to believe it was just dumb luck (although, no way you slice it, it really is a medical miracle Matt survived) that's fine too. Or if someone wants to believe that the Night Nurse (now that she's out there) "appeared between the panels" and it helps them make sense of the story, then whatever floats your boat.

But, to me, I think that Miller was insinuating some kind of Godly intervention. At least, you can't rule it out. The story is called Born Again (not that I'm saying Matt had a spiritual revial), and thus has religious overtones. In fact there are tons of overtones if you think about it. Matt is betrayed--a theme in the bible. Matt's side is pierced. When Maggie claims "Praise God, he's alive!" It looks like Matt is on a cross in a Jesus pose. And, the panel where Matt is discovered by Maggie looks like Michelangelo's Pieta. Matt even states that the KP "killed" him. And Matt, in the end, is resurrected (well, you know what I mean).

Look, if anyone feels that God had nothing to do with it, that's fine. But, you can't say that there is NO way God had a hand in it. There is nothing wrong with interpreting it that way.

I know jc is an atheist and has claimed that "god" having anything to do with the story would kill it. But, if you are an atheist, God is make-belive. Well, comics are full of make-believe stuff. So, what's the problem?

rgj

Again, while I'm on board with Stanley (I mean, if you really want to scrutinize what happened), I'm also fine with whatever floats your boat. But, someone still has to explain the medical miracle.