Daredevil Message Board

Kuljit Mithra · Hardcore Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 1530 Location: Canada

DAREDEVIL #17 by Waid, Samnee and Wilson ships July 29th, and here's a preview!

http://www.manwithoutfear.com/gallery/Daredevil-V4-017

Please use this thread to discuss everything about the second-last issue of this volume.
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Kuljit Mithra
www.manwithoutfear.com

Dimetre · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject:

This issue was pretty good. I may mention some spoilers ahead.

Kingpin is fantastic. It's too bad Waid never made use of him before now. He's got a very good handle on him. Fisk has been three steps in front of Matt this entire time.

Ikari will likely prove to be the most enduring villain to come out of Waid and Samnee's time on the book. He is a true force to be reckoned with here. He's always a threat.

There is costume change which should come as a relief to everyone here.

On the downside, it's upsetting to see Matt in the role of fool. He's been making so many nonsensical decisions throughout Volume 4. I find it kind of surprising, since Waid wrote Matt so intelligently in Volume 3.

I think Shroud, Jubula and Julia Carpenter are making this story too crowded. The Owl (mercifully) doesn't appear in this issue, which makes me wonder why we needed to see Jubula at all. Honestly, if none of the characters I mentioned in this paragraph were in this issue, I probably would have graded it higher than 3.

The costume change I previously mentioned, while a relief, is puzzling. The reason Matt changed to the stupid suit was to show he wasn't going to hide. I guess he was wearing his old outfit underneath in case he wanted to hide again. Also, considering he's in San Francisco, he must be burning up with all of these layers.

Dragonbat · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:56 pm Post subject:

Hmmm... I wonder how Matt's sense of touch works here. I mean, SF's overnight low tonight is 58F. So, would he be more affected by warmth (in which case, he'd be sweltering, yes) or cold (in which case he might have been wearing one outfit under the other to compensate for the chill)? I'd lean toward the latter, since NYC can get plenty hot and he's generally been shown to wear his costume under his clothes. He might actually need the other layer. Probably gives him better protection, too. Isn't is some sort of Reed-Richards-crafted flexible chain mail?

I gave this one 4 stars. My pulse was pounding for most of it, Samnee's art makes the fight scenes look incredible, and I think my heart plummeted on that last page.

Way more satisfying than the fanfic version I wrote after #15, anyway. [/self-plug]

DesignDevil · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject:

I'll actually give this issue a 3 for the art and pacing.
I'll give Waid credit for not ruining Kingpin and writing him decently. I criticized the setup in the last issue, but Kingpin came together here.

Matt Murdock is still a complete fool though, as he has been throughout Volume 4. I'm seriously reminded of Chuck Austen's X-Men where other great characters became unrecognizable because of words and actions that were completely moronic.

I know the chances are almost zero, but I'm hoping the next, and thank God, final issue begins with Kirsten's head and a bullet going through it.

So glad I didn't pay for this issue (or the last) and I've luckily got a buyer for my volume 4 collection. More the pity to him as now he gets to read the worst Daredevil story of the modern age after End of Days.

Another friend made this comparison last week when we were talking about Daredevil. "Its a shame. Daredevil used to be the Breaking Bad of Marvel Comics. Mature drama and complex characters. Waid has turned it into The Big Bang Theory."

JoeWithoutFear · Flying Blind Joined: 16 Oct 2013 Posts: 54

!!!SPOILERS!!!

Definitely better than some recent issues.

SO glad to see that awful suit gone. Even though it makes zero sense how it got replaced. But, then again, that business suit made no sense to begin with so, it doesn't really matter how nonsensical replacing it is.

Also the issue was good in that none of the characters were given a chance to be as obnoxious as they'd been recently.

Ikari better survive that... stabbing through the torso... because he's the best thing to come out of Daredevil since I started reading the book. I might even read an Ikari solo series if it ever happened. =P

Also, possibly good news, if Kingpin really does make good on his promise to kill one of Matt's people, that means there is a chance Kirsten might be killed off since she's far less important than Foggy!! ... but it's Waid, so, this is probably the end of Foggy. After all, my guess is Waid wouldn't want to put Kirsten in a refrigerator or whatever they say. Now, a man? You can shove them into fridges by the dozen no problem. Wink

So, we'll see what happens. Just one issue to go, right?

....did I mention how great it was to see the real suit back?

Kingpin was very well written, as others have said. The plot was good, the action was good, the Shroud and how he interacts with Matt is cool.

So, if it weren't for having to dig itself out from such a deep whole, it would have been a really cool issue -- but we're not quite out of that hole yet. Soon!

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

"Oh hai murdock. I just ruined your life, your reputation and the life of your friends, in addition. to the point that you requested help from your very nemesis. Now let's go together rescue a hostage"

"oh noes! why did you do that? I had figured out how to save everyone!"

"from whom? me or the nemesis you went to because of me?"

"no from... the Owl... no, you... no, Fisk... wait, who is the bad guy again anyway?"

"The guy who's writing this, I'd wager."

Soriano · Flying Blind Joined: 23 Oct 2014 Posts: 5

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

JoeWithoutFear · Flying Blind Joined: 16 Oct 2013 Posts: 54

@Daredevil24

OK, then they try to kill Kirsten. But, Matt returns to the Kingpin's hideout to find that Kirsten has broken free, beaten the Kingpin and his henchmen, and sewn herself a new uniform as she begins her new life as "DareShe-Devil!"

Then Kirsten says something like "I can't believe you never beat this fat guy before. Being a super hero is easy!"

Daredevil24 · Humanity's Fathom Joined: 06 Apr 2011 Posts: 367

Francesco · Underboss Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 1307

How would I get out of the current situation without anyone dying if I were DD, in seven simple steps:

step 1 - stop crying like a drama queen.
step 2 - go where Ikari's body has landed after having been impaled and thrown away.
step 3 - ensure that he's either dead or unconscious, switch costumes with him.
step 4 - alert the fantastic four, the avengers, the defenders and even the X-men that I'll soon might need their help at the location of kingpin's hideout
step 5 - go back to kingpin's place (optional: carrying Ikari's body in DD's costume) disguised as Ikari and tell him "Yo Fisk everything is okay, I killed Murdock"
step 6 - beat the crap out of everybody who isn't a hostage, all the while waiting for the backup to come.
step 7 - book a vacation in croatia or someplace

jriddle · Playing to the Camera Joined: 19 May 2011 Posts: 129

Nightwing2001 · Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject:

This was definetly one of the more enjoyable issues of vol. 4 (although I'm not sure if that's saying much) as others have said Waid's version of the Kingpin was well done and the action and excitement kept me on the edge of my seat wondering what would happen next. Ikari is also a great new villian that I hope is not dead and we'll see again. It's great to finally see a new formidable bad guy for Daredevil to tangle with. That being said I really feel like during this whole run Matt has come across like an idiot and chump, I mean really what was he thinking would be the outcome of his telling everyone who he really was? It's funny now that his whole life has finally gone off the rails and he's left wondering how to fix things he's finally now realizing how wrong he's acted. Just now. Rolling Eyes

*Sigh*

This is what bugs me the most about this, as someone who has followed this comic for 25 years (can't believe its been this long) I know Matt is better than this, and I know he is smarter than this to let something like this happen. I feel like Waid really let down the character of Matt/DD with all of this, not to mention the fans.

I still want to read the next issue, not just to see what happens next but to see how in the hell Waid is ever going to fix things. Who knows, maybe it will take some sort of Secret Wars reality changing to make this mess go away.

kentuckydevil · Flying Blind Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 79

just think......

one more comic....and its over.

Hang tough my friends...the light will be here soon..or is it the dark....anyway it's about to get much better.

ky.

Darkdevil · Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:56 pm Post subject:

4/5

Another strong issue here, the pacing was tense and suspenseful, the action was great. The scenes with Kingpin and Matt were chilling, as Fisk demonstrates that he's been in control the whole time.

Again, I think Waid exploring the consequences and reactions of revealing your secret identity is reaching a terrific climax. All these comments on how Matt is 'acting like a fool' is overlooking the sheer point of this exploration, which is, Matt's delusion that such a reveal will be okay and that he can handle any and all consequences of such actions.

When it's become woefully obvious that he can't. Waid shows that in this hi-tech society, someone is always watching and listening. The sub-plot with the Shroud and the Owl may be cumbersome, but it demonstrates how the breadth of Matt's secrets can be had for all. Matt's inability to see the true dangers of revealing his identity may cost one of his dear friends their very life.

The costume reveal was great, but lacked real impact. The fact that he seemingly was wearing it all along suggests the red suit was what, a ploy? A distraction? Still, great to see it back.

My only real nitpick is Kingpin's line of making people even afraid to speak his name. That line should have come with a footnote espousing fans to watch the show on Netflix. Still, I can't complain too much since we now have Coulson strutting through the MU now amongst other things.

So, in essence, this is some fine character work that Waid is doing, a mental breakdown of sorts, and I can't wait to see how this situation may be resolved.

The Message Board is currently in read-only mode, as the software is now out of date. Several features and pages have been removed. If/When I get time I intend to re-launch the board with updated software.