Daredevil Message Board

[jeffreyhenry2]

Hey guys,

I am a new reader in the Daredevil universe of comics. So far, I've only read Miller stuff (Born Again, The Man Without Fear) and the Loeb/Sale classic, Yellow. It is to my understanding that apart from Miller, three writers had incredible runs on Darevil: Bendis, Brubaker and Waid (I've heard especially good things about this one). I would like to read them all one day but for now, I have a strict budget and would like to choose the best. What do you guys think? Bendis, Brubaker or Waid? Or something else?

Thanks in advance!

Jeff

[Mike Murdock]

I'd read Bendis next. Either that or start Volume 2 with Kevin Smith. I actually like Brubaker the best of the three, but I wouldn't start with Brubaker. His run closely follows Bendis and builds directly from it.

I also don't think you can go wrong with Mark Waid. His run got rough at the end, but the first volume is great. But, since Bendis is not popular around here (although Waid has his detractors too), I'm going with that recommendation.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

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I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[jeffreyhenry2]

Thanks for the insight MM!

[DesignDevil]

[Mike Murdock]

Oh, I missed that he didn't read the original Frank Miller run. Definitely read that next. In fact, read it and then re-read Born Again because you really should have read the original run first.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[jeffreyhenry2]

Hello again guys,

I've only read the two books - not the original Miller run. I was considering going in a different direction (hence my question a/b Waid, Bendis and Brubaker) as I didn't particularly like BA and TMWF. I liked them, but didn't love them as I thought I would (please don't judge ). Maybe it's because I did not start by the beginning, but maybe it's because Miller does not resonate with me on Daredevil (I love most of his other books). Do you guys think reading the original run would definitely change my mind?

Thanks!

Jeff

[Mike Murdock]

I think it could. Born Again builds off the original run. I don't think people should read it until they get a good foundation for the character. I don't think The Man Without Fear is that foundation, since it's an out of continuity story that has some changed elements and a different style.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[jeffreyhenry2]

I will probably go with the original Miller run then as it seems obvious that Miller is everyone's favorite DD writer. Maybe reading the whole thing, then re-reading BA will change my mind.

Many thanks guys!

Jeffrey

[james castle]

Yep, do the original Miller run next.

Then read all the Nocenti you can find.

Then read Bendis, Brubaker and Waid. BUT, and this is important, stop reading each of those runs at about the half way point because each of those runs completely tanks by the end. Heck, for Bendis and Brubaker maybe only read the first third.

Skip Guardian Devil. Instead just go online and suss out the one spoiler (hint: it's on the cover of the trade) that you need to know for continuity.

Then read some D.G. Chichester.
_________________
JC

So why can't you see the funny side?
Why aren't you laughing?

[DesignDevil]

Everyone's opinions vary on which Daredevil stories are better than others, or where certain writers went wrong. I'm not going to step on anyones else's opinions, but I will say this. Whatever you do, whatever you may hear or read, avoid End of Days like the plague. It has zero redeeming qualities and is not only the worst modern Daredevil story, but one of the worst comic stories in general from the modern age.

[james castle]

[LightningandIce]

I'd like to chime in and second everyone else's advice about Miller. MWF was a retelling of DD's origin and while entertaining, it didn't really do justice to the characters of Matt and Elektra. Born Again is also a great deconstruction of the character but it loses its impact if you're not familiar with what the character was truly all about to begin with. Miller's first run, on the other hand, either created or codified every element of the book that would be used from then on, while telling some damn good stories to boot.

As for what to read next, if you're going to make your way through Volume 2, I recommend starting with David Mack's Parts of a Hole. It's a great story that bridges the gap between Smith's (terrible) run and Bendis's (decent) run. From there, just proceed in chronological order until the end of Brubaker's run. By the time you finish that, you should be well enough acquainted to know where you want to go from there.

A couple other thoughts:

-All runs have their ups and downs. Even most of the good ones tend to take a noticeable dip about halfway through.

-Never is the above more true than with Waid. Waid started off well enough but tanked hard after the Bullseye storyline. If you decide to read Waid, you're going to want to stop somewhere between issues 27-31 of V3. Don't touch anything after that.

-Don't count out Nocenti. If you can get past the preachy wannabe-liberal-arts-professor nonsense, the first 2/3 of her work is excellent and right on par with everybody else we've talked about.

-Chichester is mostly pretty bad. Don't waste your time or money.

-I haven't read much between Chichester and Mack, but I've heard it isn't anything to write home about. Same goes for Diggle.

[Dimetre]

I'll chime in. Frank Miller's original Daredevil run has been collecting in three trade paperbacks entitled Frank Miller: Visionaries. Volume 1 starts with the first issue of Daredevil in which he came on board on pencils only. Roger MacKenzie was the writer. These issues are okay, but you won't know what the hype was about. Volume 2 is mandatory reading, as he is both writing and drawing. Everything about these issues is revolutionary. By volume 3 he had ceded most of the art duties to Klaus Janson, but it's still great.

I always say this, but Daredevil #181 is the single greatest issue of any comic book ever. You must read it, so find yourself a copy of Frank Miller: Visionaries Volume 2.

I'm not as big a Nocenti fan as some others here, but you should try to find some of her work, especially her work with Typhoid Mary. I'm also not a big Chichester fan, but you should try to read Last Rites. Daredevil #300, the final part of Last Rites, is fantastic. Following that, I think Chichester took the character in horrible directions.

I would recommend reading the several issues that J.M. DeMatteis wrote, even though they have never been collected in trade. I also think you should try some of Karl Kessel's uncollected run, and maybe try to find a trade paperback called Widow's Kiss collecting a lot of Joe Kelly's run. I second the recommendation of David Mack's Parts of a Hole. That's probably my favourite story in Volume 2. A lot of people like Bendis' run, but I personally think you can skip it. Brubaker's run started off well, and he's one of my favourite writers, but Daredevil is not his best work. (Read Velvet!) Definitely make up your own mind about Waid. Volume 3 is fantastic! At least pick up the first trade paperback collecting Waid's work when Paolo Rivera was the artist.

[Pete]

Well, haven't been here for a long time, but seeing a few threads that piqued my interest (and actually reminded me of the old days on here) I thought I'd chip in on this.

I'm a long time reader who actually doesn't think the character starts with Millers arrival with #158. Yes, this is probably the beginning of one of the most important careers in the industry and along with Dark Knight (and the vastly underrated Ronin) and the likes of Alan Moore's initial burst of creativity in the 80's much of the industry is still trying to play catch up over 30 years later (which just about says everything about the industry) Between these two guys, they both stand guilty of producing such great work that people still seem overwhelmed and in awestruck even now with most people desperately trying to stick to the template laid down at this time.

So go and read some cheesy 60's /70's DD first, just to highlight the fact that comic books, and DD, had a history before May 1979. Maybe the classic Thomas/Colan issues, from around #53 - 69 and see why this guy was well over the 'second rate Spiderman' cliches even by then.

Then read the original Miller run. Read Born Again, then read everything Nocenti did. Then read Nocenti all over again and become awestruck at the originality of a writer with her own vision who refused to follow a formula.

After that, there is a lot, too much, that's not that great in Vol 1. Chichester was a disaster, apart from Last Rites. DeMatties tries his best to pick up the pieces and very nearly succeeds. Kesel is fun but too brief. The rest of Vol 1 slowly descends into bland mediocracy and is finally put out of its misery.

Vol 2 - Smith and Mack are must reads I guess, but Bendis / Maleev produce a long, consistent run that still stands the test of time whilst running out of steam about two thirds of the way through. It's still in awe of Miller, but it is a highlight of the title's history. Mostly. Brubaker is overrated and goes downhill from the first issue and the remainder I try and pretend never happened. It did, but I can still pretend.
Vol 3 /4 - Waid starts off refreshingly well but overstays his welcome. Things get really silly towards the end.
Vol 5 I can't really comment, having almost slipped into a coma by #5 because its just so damn dull.

Maybe I'm too old for the regular title now, and should content myself with my lovely Masterworks and Omnibus collections before turning in for an early night. Or maybe, just maybe, there is some unknown guy/girl just waiting around the corner who will revolutionise this book and this character, still easily the best Marvel has ever had, and bring some originality back to the book any day now. Who knows.

But it sure isn't going to be Soule.

[Francesco]

I'll be brutally honest:
Pick Bendis.
It's the only one run who'll make you feel proud you're reading a saga of Daredevil.
The others both start fairly good, but:
in Brubaker's, DD rapidly turns into a whining loser who gets beaten up even by a doctor with a fire extinguisher and cannot have a win to save his life, literally.
in Waid's, DD rapidly turns into a sit-com character along his supporting cast, his love interest is a mary sue, everything gets told and not shown, the author gets annoyingly hamfisted in his whole "waa waa DD is no longer depressed" and the plot gets ridiculously convoluted and nonsensical.

So go with Bendis.