Daredevil Message Board

[Thayrone Ibsen]

Hello all.
I am starting this topic to present a question which is in my head for quite some time. Do we really need Kingpin to be in Daredevil forevermore? I mean, the guy served as a great nemesis for Matt in various stories, but aren't there too many by now?
Are we in the realm of myth, in which we can see this sort of duo always engaging each other through eternity a la Egyptian mythology? Why can't we revitalize old villains more often, or bring in new ones?
One of the things Waid did well was stay away from him, The Hand etc. for as long as he could (and when he brought KP back to the story it was lame, but so was the whole of volume IV).
So what do you guys think?
There are other antagonists with a great repeat response as well, but this is the worse.
Can't we get rid of ol' Wilson? Has he not lost his charm and purpose, at least in DD stories?

[Dimetre]

While I agree with you that more should be done with other villains from Daredevil's past, I'm willing to see what writers in the future are able to do with Wilson Fisk as a foil for Matt. I'm currently enjoying what Chip Zdarsky is doing with Fisk as the mayor of New York, and the challenges that position is bringing to his life. I don't see the point in removing any character from the toybox permanently. As you pointed out, Mark Waid didn't use the Kingpin for years. Ed Brubaker avoided using the Kingpin for a long time too, actually forcing him out of North America all together.

The fact is that Fisk represents a corrupt aristocracy, and he represents it brilliantly. Past writers have added compelling shading to his character, and now that we have Vincent D'Onofrio's on-screen portrayal, he isn't going away.

[Thayrone Ibsen]

Well, to be fair with myself, I wasn't talking about removing this or that from some toybox permanently.
But: Miller; O'Neil; Nocenti; Chichester; Smith (at some extent); Mack; Bendis; Brubaker; Diggle; Waid; Soule, and others in minis, specials, whatevers. They all resorted to good ol' Wilson, because God forbid Matt has another great villain. He always has to come back to that same guy... Not even Spider-man, who has the truly great Green Goblin and Doc Ock has to check on them so, so often. But yeah, I guess it's okay for DD to be a book in which so few antagonists exist, are always recycled and even appear in other books even more than DD does.
Not to mention the amount of characters who always get a lot of highlight in his book but the vice-versa of things never happens (yeah, I'm looking at you, Elektra, Black Widow, Cage, Iron Fist, Jessica, Spidey, so on, so on).

[Mike Murdock]

I like what Zdarsky is doing with Fisk right now. I would argue he isn't currently a villain and more of a supporting character, so they are doing something new with him. There were eras in the past without Fisk for significant periods of time so a break from time to time can be very helpful. IIRC, wasn't he gone from Waid's run until the very end? Right now, he's mayor of New York City and should be a significant character not only in Daredevil but all of Marvel so I'd rather see him. But I wouldn't be opposed to a break after he loses.
_________________
Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

Not sure what to read next? Check out the Book Club for some ideas!

I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
Thomas More - A Man for All Seasons

[fubarthepanda]

Definitely! I would love to see Fisk put on ice for a number of years. Am surprised that the Mayor Fisk storyline is still running some two plus years after the Soule run had ended (it's hard to take seriously considering his history). But, too often, DD gets trapped in the Miller Kingpin/Elektra/Bullseye rehash cycle that it's always nice to get something new every so often.

[macjr33]

Much like other here, I really like what Zdarsky is doing with Fisk and I do like the angle of him being mayor, even if it has been awhile. Also, Fisk and Matt are tied to each other just as much if not more than any other hero/villain pairing in comics. However, I am always open to new ideas and new villians in the book. To me it is always a question of what makes the most sense for the story.

I certainly could see a scenario where, if Fisk is outed and is no longer the mayor of NYC, that he then leaves the book for a bit to "regroup" before returning to the book at a later time. This could certainly open the opportunity for new villains or different stories in a way not too dissimilar from what Waid did.

[fubarthepanda]

Zdarsky did a good job with Fisk early on, but with Typhoid Mary walking around openly as his bodyguard, it's starting to get a bit incredulous (a la most things post-DD #20).

[DesignDevil]

I like Fisk, but god yes, he needs to take a long vacation. They need to do a big story where his time as mayor comes to a close. Then he either goes to prison or has to flee the country again, and we don't see him again for several years after that.

Also, ever since Matt's secret identity got restored, the relationship between Daredevil and Kingpin has lost most of its depth anyway. Matt never references their complex history and Wilson doesn't remember their complex history.