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| Who's had a worse DD writting run, DeMatteis or Mack? |
| David "Where's DD? I don't see him!" Mack |
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11% |
[ 1 ] |
| J.M. "Can you say spontaneous 'psychoness?' :)" DeMatteis |
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44% |
[ 4 ] |
| Shut up, Forrest because you like Chichester. :D |
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44% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: What about DeMatteis? :) |
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Now that's a mud slinging hate fest I can get behind!!!   |
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Darediva
Wake Up
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 1208
Location: Hell's Kitchen South, Arkansas, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:01 am Post subject: |
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Don't be dissin' my man David Mack! 
Too much personal bias here on my part because I know David Mack. I have not had the pleasure of meeting many of the other writers.
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Those who throw dirt merely lose ground. |
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Goddess0Whim
Fall From Grace
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Central, NYS
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:14 am Post subject: |
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i like David Mack too. so don't be dissin him. and unlike many others, i think the Vision Quest arc was a VERY GOOD and needed parallel at that moment in the run for Matt/DD's life and wouldn't have worked well as a miniseries. off to the sides you would not have been able to breathe and take in the comparisons.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Goddess0Whim wrote: | | i think the Vision Quest arc was a VERY GOOD and needed parallel at that moment in the run for Matt/DD's life and wouldn't have worked well as a miniseries. off to the sides you would not have been able to breathe and take in the comparisons. |
Mack is immensly talented and I really dig his art, although I have not read much of his Kabuki stuff, my friend loves it. I think he just completely missed the boat by writing in the DD books a story that was mostly absent of DD, didn't terribly concern him, nor was it even in NY. All of which would be excusable if it was a one-shot, or even a couple issues, but this went on for too long, I think.
Sure, it could have been a good mini, because then Mack fans could check it out and it wouldn't be festering in the Daredevil title for months.
It was a good idea to have a breather after issue 50, but I think it should have been done differently. Maybe Mack could have done a flashback story with Echo and Matt in which Matt was in every issue, etc. The bottomline is I felt letdown because he left out DD in DD's own book for far too long and nothing really happened.
P.S. I voted for DeMatteis being the worst DD writer.  |
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Blind Alley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Lyon, France
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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"Parts of a hole" was written by Mack and had some cool stuff (the opening sequence with Matt playing the piano and thinking about his life). And the story was supported by great art from Quesada, before he started drawing DD like the Hulk in DD:Father.
De Matteis 's story was drawn by Wagner and Nord. They were good but their art was less gorgeous than Quesada's. And De Matteis had to deal with all the black costume stuff left by... Chichester.
Don't get me wrong, I liked "Fall from grace" and some others Chichester's arcs but it's too bad he couldn't end his run properly.
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Blind Alley wrote: |
Don't get me wrong, I liked "Fall from grace" and some others Chichester's arcs but it's too bad he couldn't end his run properly. |
He had every intention of returning Matt Murdock, etc. to the Daredevil books, in a reasonable fashion. However, Marvel decided to kick "Marvel Edge" into high gear (yet another empty promotion) and they fired the DD editor and hence Chichester, for strictly advertisment/promotional reasons. (Although the book's sales may well have been slipping. Still, Marvel Edge was an economic decision, not an artistic one.) (See the Chichester interview.) Then, the new editor hired DeMatteis with the mandate from the corporate office to bring back the red costume, and DeMatteis acted like he didn't even know what book he was writing, but he brought back the red costume.
My point is Chichester was fired rather unexpectedly (hence the Alan Smithee stuff) and he had every intention of ending his run properly.
I'm guesing you already knew that. I'm just venting.  |
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Blind Alley
Tree of Knowledge
Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 292
Location: Lyon, France
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: | | I'm guesing you already knew that. |
Yes, I read the Chichester interview too, but your post could be usefull to people who had not read it yet.
| Forrest wrote: | | I'm just venting. |
What do you mean ? (I'm french, I'm not getting everything in english)
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Pete
Fall From Grace
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 417
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Forrest wrote: |
He had every intention of returning Matt Murdock, etc. to the Daredevil books, in a reasonable fashion. However, Marvel decided to kick "Marvel Edge" into high gear (yet another empty promotion) and they fired the DD editor and hence Chichester, for strictly advertisment/promotional reasons. (Although the book's sales may well have been slipping. Still, Marvel Edge was an economic decision, not an artistic one.) (See the Chichester interview.) Then, the new editor hired DeMatteis with the mandate from the corporate office to bring back the red costume, and DeMatteis acted like he didn't even know what book he was writing, but he brought back the red costume.
My point is Chichester was fired rather unexpectedly (hence the Alan Smithee stuff) and he had every intention of ending his run properly.
I'm guesing you already knew that. I'm just venting. |
I've got mixed feelings about Mack. As an artist, I think he's great (I happen to love Bendis' current run, but Mack's artwork was the only redeeming feature of the awful 'Wake Up' arc), and as a DD writer I think he's fine as well. (The opening pages of 'Parts Of A Hole' with Matt playing the piano and remembering Karen through the sound of the music is just beautifully written) In fact this whole arc is fine by me. I agree about the later 'Echo' thing as well. It's a nice story. But it's not Mack's fault that Quesada dropped the ball and had this in the ongoing monthly book instead of a mini where it so obviously belonged.
DeMatteis came along and singlehandedly rescued the book from the depths it had plunged into during the Chichester years. The book was in a rut. It's OK saying Chichester was 'fired unintentionally' and 'wanted to end his run properly', but the guy had been around a long time already, and done enough damage. Three strikes and your out? This guy had an age to get things right. He didn't go quickly enough for some people. And what's all this about ending prematurely? Writers and artists get shifted and moved around continuiously. Not many leave things in such an awful state as Chichester. Think about the book when he started, in the beautiful warm afterglow of Nocenti's stellar run. Then picture it when he left. Any regrets he has about 'unfinished business' is just a reflection on the crap legacy he left us with after a long, long run of issues. Original, yes. Any good? Well, a great two parter with the Punisher, an excellent team up with Ghost Rider (nice memories of an earlier tale featuring Karen), some good stuff with the Hand, and the majestic #300 (on of my fav DD issues ever), then....nah. The good issues between #301 and the mid 340's can be counted, in my opinion, on one hand, easy, with 'Fall From Grace' a clear example of early '90's hyperbole, a desperate attempt to reinvent a supposedly moribound title and disguise a lack of understanding with a radical change of direction, all done with a 'look at us, this is so different, aren't we great' mentality. And a crap armoured costume.
Now if your a Chichester fan, as you clearly are, of course your going to be pissed with DeMatteis. It's a completely different take. But for some people (me), buying the issues during the Chichester years was a painful experience where the question 'Why do I bother?' invariably crossed my mind on each months visit to the comic shop. DeMatteis, during his short run, managed to drag the title up from the levels of unrecognisable tosh it had fallen into.
So, yeah, to boil it down to your vote, it's a 'Shuttup you Chichester fan' thingy from me. But, hey, I agree about Kesel. |
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ozddzealot
Playing to the Camera
Joined: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Timor Leste
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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pete says it all....
mark
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Forrest
Lowlife
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'm an idiot.
I totally forgot that Mack wrote Parts of a Hole. That was a brilliant arc! I was thinking that Mack only wrote that vision quest arc, which was scary terrible.
So, correction: I think Mack can be one heck of a DD writer, as with Parts of a Hole, but for whatever reason, he missed the boat with his vision quest arc.
Yep, I like Mack. |
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Goddess0Whim
Fall From Grace
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Central, NYS
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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i still think that the VIsion Quest Arc was a very proper thing to put into the regular line up. miniseries implies that it happenes somewhat outside the occuring story, and not along with it.
yes it may have been a bit more artsy fartsy than many people needed, but the whole lesson about balancing different sides of your personality so nothing falls to pieces was a good commentary on what Matt/DD hadn't exactly figured out how to do at that moment in continuity.
that's why it belonged, because as someone else in his life had learned to move on, he hadn't.
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