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Has the Kingpin's empire been permanently destroyed?
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The Overlord
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Joined: 22 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Has the Kingpin's empire been permanently destroyed? Reply with quote

Has the Kingpin's empire been permanently destroyed? Fisk is now in prison, with no resources, no influence and not many allies left, surrounded by enemies and he has been shot, how can the Kingpin recover from all that?
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Forrest
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just how many Kingpin stories have you read? Razz

Kingpin may be the most resourceful person in the Marvel Universe.
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DDmikeMN
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Mrs. Fisk in jail? Isn't she in Europe? Isn't Matt going to Europe? Uh, oh.
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james castle
Devil in Cell-Block D


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisk's empire never really recovered after Last Rites. It seemed like any time a writer wanted to use him they'd have one issue where they'd be like "well Kingpin has sort of rebuilt his empire somehow" and then have it knocked down again. It's been a long, long time since Kingpin has been the omnipresent force that he once was (which is too bad since the character works best as an actually Kingpin as opposed to a kinda boss like thug dude).
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Forrest
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last Rites! Chichester is the most underrated comic book writer ever! Cool

Sorry, I'l go back to work, now. Razz
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forrest wrote:
Just how many Kingpin stories have you read? Razz

Kingpin may be the most resourceful person in the Marvel Universe.


He has never recovered for something this serious, at least when he lost his empire before, he still had his freedom, he doesn't even have that, besides after all the times Kingpin has become before, it is starting to become old hat. So not only does Kingpin have to get out of jail (after he recovers from his gun shot wound) he has has to reestablish his gang, take out all the other crime lords who took his turf and do so without DD shutting him down before he can get started again (like in Hardcore) that might be too much for him.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james castle wrote:
Fisk's empire never really recovered after Last Rites. It seemed like any time a writer wanted to use him they'd have one issue where they'd be like "well Kingpin has sort of rebuilt his empire somehow" and then have it knocked down again. It's been a long, long time since Kingpin has been the omnipresent force that he once was (which is too bad since the character works best as an actually Kingpin as opposed to a kinda boss like thug dude).


But thing you can't just have Kingpin become as powerful as he was before Last Rites, without a really good storyline and a lot of time. At this point the Kingpin is in jail, wounded, no resources, no influence, not many allies left and surrounded by enemies, you can't just have him go from that to supreme ruler of the NYC mobs again, just like that. I mean first Kingpin has to recover from his wound, beat the murder charge against, reestablish his gang, take back his turf from the crime bosses who control it now and do so without DD shutting him down before he can really get started (like in Hardcore). His empire would shakey for at least five years before he starts to reestablish it.
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The Privateer
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Joined: 24 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course he will re-establish it, there's still the usual rackets to be had, prostitution, drugs, gun running, racketeering, protection etc, there will always be the same scared people that he can lean on, there will always be the same bosses in place that he can manipulate or black mail into something. All it needs is a few gangs to stand by him, people get scared and it is rebuilt again.

Some of the gangs would like the protection of the King-pin, they know what they are going to get, instead of the current gang-warfare for the open turf, they want a good screw and regularity. If he wanted to, he could do quite easily. All it would take would be bully boy tactics, find a strong powerful gang boss, beat him to a pulp, watch as everyone is in awe as he has taken down one of the biggest players, then take control of his gang, it starts from there.

People will always want the stuff that King-pin peddles, there is always a market for it and there is always need for a king-pin to boss it all. He will return, if not someone else will be filling his void for him, and boy with the size of him, what a void!!
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daredevil99x
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kingpin will rise again. He's always able to make a comeback, and this time will be no different.
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daredevil99x wrote:
The Kingpin will rise again. He's always able to make a comeback, and this time will be no different.


But isn't that becomming a little old hat at this point? How many times has DD destroyed the Kingpin's empire, only for the Kingpin to rebuild it a little while later? Seems like their just recyling old stories if that happens again. I mean really how many times can the same guy take over the city's mobs, only to be dethroned a little while later? If there going to bring Kingpin back, they should do something to change the status quo, besides I think Kingpin is in danger of becomming over exposed, he should take a vacation for a while.
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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wilson Fisk, in my estimation, is an integral part of the DD mythos. He is more than simply a DD antagonist, more than an implacable foe. He is Matt's nemesis. Fisk's trials and tribulations are a fundamental component of this comic. Am I suggesting that Fisk must appear in every issue? Of course not. But his appearances should be more frequent than that of other adversaries.

And Fisk is perhaps the most tenacious character in the annals of comic history. DD Vol. #1 #340 (among my favorite Kingpin appearances) illustrates this. Bereft of his empire, reduced to "Inveigle's Auto Yard," Fisk is nonetheless supremely confident and self-assured. He has no doubt that he will once again ascend to the throne. And neither should you...
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james castle
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Stevie.
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rgj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jc is absolutley right. The last time Fisk had a real stronghold on his empire was LAST RITES. And, that was the greatest "Matt takes down Fisk" story ever. KP's return to power during Parts of a Hole/Underboss was rushed and his hold on the empire was tenuous at best. Throw in going blind and it really, just didn't work.

Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. We need his darkness to contrast Matt's light. Instead of putting KP on the shelf (although a brief rest wouln't be unwelcomed) how about Brubaker SHOW us Kingpin rise to true power once again. After all, in a way, he is going to show us Matt's return.

rgj
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The Overlord
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rgj wrote:
jc is absolutley right. The last time Fisk had a real stronghold on his empire was LAST RITES. And, that was the greatest "Matt takes down Fisk" story ever. KP's return to power during Parts of a Hole/Underboss was rushed and his hold on the empire was tenuous at best. Throw in going blind and it really, just didn't work.

Stephen is right. Like it, or not, Fisk is an important component to this series. He's as important as Satan in the Bible. We need his darkness to contrast Matt's light. Instead of putting KP on the shelf (although a brief rest wouln't be unwelcomed) how about Brubaker SHOW us Kingpin rise to true power once again. After all, in a way, he is going to show us Matt's return.

rgj


Perhaps your right, but Kingpin's return has to happen sutble and slow this time, frankly first Kingpin needs some to recover from his past defeats and really plan out his return, his attempt in Hardcore seemed kinda rushed and sloppy it seemed like Fisk was too impatient, which is why DD took it apart like a cheap watch. Kingpin should wait, let DD deal with other problems, while he plans, covers every angle and then after a suitible amount of time and DD begun to think that Kingpin may not return, then Fisk can strike.
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Stephan
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Joined: 30 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Former DD scribe D.G. Chicester supposedly contemplated a radical change for Wilson Fisk: transforming him into a gang member, a hoodlum with his own "posse," so to speak. Would any of you welcome such a change? Karl Kesel, meanwhile, once proposed that Matt become an office-holder, perhaps a city councilman or mayor. What a riveting story that would be - Murdock, the public servant, waging a valiant struggle (in both his guises) against Fisk, the thug and racketeer!
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